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Titan nerf - is it happening?
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Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#101 - 2012-02-11 16:32:15 UTC
Tobias Sjodin wrote:
When there's a fight, any fight there is always an individual or group of individuals who cannot cope with the fact that they lost. They will say: "I had a back injury going into the fight" or "I didn't think you would fight dirty". The excuses and rampant bullshit coming from losers will always be ever present.

So is it in EVE. Losers want game mechanics to change, not because they are imbalanced but because losers lose. The problem is that it is a slippery slope, because no matter the game mechanics, losers will always find a way to lose. Before titans, losers whined about carriers and dreadnoughts and how everyone blobbed with carriers, and that it was "unfair". Even before that, battleships were "imbalanced" and only "no-lifers who grinded isk for months" were able to get them. And then when they became cheaper the losers whined once more because the "no-lifers" grouped together and had "blobs" of battleships.

The constant pattern of meandering drivel hurf-blurfing out of the inane mind of losers is tiresome. They resort to some kind of misplaced idealism and illusions of "balance", where they really mean that they want the game imbalanced on their behalf, safety-mechanisms in the game so they won't have to deal with the fact that they're losers.

I would give losers the advice to go play another game, but even with some games being like virtual overprotective parents out there, the unfortunate fact is that "loser" is a state of mind, and no changes or game mechanics will change that fact.

You have to change yourselves first.

But that notion is so deeply buried below psychological defense mechanism, denial, projection and self-loathing that probably is impossible. As is this futile attempt at making losers realize that they are.


The real troll fact here is that because you have your big protective space bunkers threatened into becoming more like mass HP coffins. You feel that defending them and calling people names is the only way you can fight back. Build more mass HP coffins for all your members to compensate for the loss in power. Because you fear if you must use sub caps you will lose. Being in a titan all your life and never experiancing death makes you soft and fear it. Being in a softer hull is just scary to you mates. Lets face it being in a titan or SC all your life makes you feel superior (Prob compensates for size issues) but most of all the loss of skill in the majority of other ships. All you do really is soak up a lot of damage, point, click, and shoot... repeat. Does not require much of a thought process to fly a object that doesn't really move and has about the usefulness of a brick when CCP is done with it. All you were ever good at is hot dropping SC's and titans onto loan boats and popping them with no chance of yourself being in any danger. It is lovely to see those days are numbered and you for once can taste mortality. Cry for us some more how useless your mass HP coffins are going to become.

The inability to survive while logging out has really changed the game. Now you can become losers like the rest of us and actually lose ships and not take the cowards way out by logging off in the middle of a fight so you don't die to superior numbers. About time they really did become mass HP coffins. XD If you really don't fear death then why do you log out in the past to save your big nice hp bunker you can safely vanish in when out matched. Since you can't you must resort to other things. But you know what. CCP is about to hit the final nail into your coffins when they make the guns untrackable for subcaps. Means with given time a single subcap could solo a titan given enough time. It was dumb to begin with titans could solo without support when they are meant to have support. Not lone pawn tools you can sit in with god mode turned on for the majority of eve. About time they started dieing more. Your missing a big part of the game if you don't know what pending loss feels like with that rush. Almost like just before *** makes ya feel alive and really enjoy the game. Pretty hard to feel if there is no risk. This way it will be more enjoyable for you as a game. To have that part of the void in your life filled. Welcome to the mortal world feel its pleasures. About time huh.
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2012-02-11 19:48:22 UTC
Caldari Citizen20110707 wrote:


some northrn regions with tech moons have 800-1200 billion isk income... a month... titan production cost; 45b at 800 billion that is 18 titans a month........


Are you trying to say that moon goo is a problem? Then go break them and take them and don't use them. Nothing is stopping people from doing that except, well, sucking.
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-02-11 19:50:19 UTC
lilol' me wrote:
Ok PL guy, put your money where your mouth is. Stop using Titan blobs and lets see how you become one of those losers shall we

They'd still win and then you losers would whine about what they did to get it nerfed.
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2012-02-11 19:51:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Surge Roth
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
DelBoy Trades wrote:
They cost nearly 100billion isk, the least they can do is insta pop your ****** dominix.


Clearly 100bill isn't enough to stop alliances from mass producing them.




That's what happens when you get powerful. This post stinks of jealousy.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#105 - 2012-02-11 21:02:18 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Surge Roth wrote:
lilol' me wrote:
Ok PL guy, put your money where your mouth is. Stop using Titan blobs and lets see how you become one of those losers shall we

They'd still win and then you losers would whine about what they did to get it nerfed.


Like how thier fleet got wiped out in under 20 min last night?
Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries
#106 - 2012-02-11 21:04:40 UTC
DelBoy Trades wrote:
They cost nearly 100billion isk, the least they can do is insta pop your ****** dominix.


Isk cost of a ship cannot be used as a balancing factor between ships, considering the ******** amounts of Isk titan-alliances get from tech/bots.

95% of the players are loving EVE, the other 5%? On the forums.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#107 - 2012-02-11 22:00:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Onictus wrote:
They are being built faster than they are being killed, so yes, true statement.

Lets all sink disgusting amounts of materiel into Titans and start waving our massive supercap blob at people at blapping entire fleets.

That would make em get nerfed.


If you can't form a massive blob or join one, then please refrain. When you get blown up by subcaps and the like, you make it easier for CCP to say Titans are balanced.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Berke Negri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-02-11 22:24:11 UTC
Tobias Sjodin wrote:

The constant pattern of meandering drivel hurf-blurfing out of the inane mind of losers is tiresome. They resort to some kind of misplaced idealism and illusions of "balance", where they really mean that they want the game imbalanced on their behalf, safety-mechanisms in the game so they won't have to deal with the fact that they're losers.

I would give losers the advice to go play another game, but even with some games being like virtual overprotective parents out there, the unfortunate fact is that "loser" is a state of mind, and no changes or game mechanics will change that fact.

You have to change yourselves first.

But that notion is so deeply buried below psychological defense mechanism, denial, projection and self-loathing that probably is impossible. As is this futile attempt at making losers realize that they are.


"as an elite pvper, let me just tell you guys that "game balance" is, like, just a state of mind maannnn"
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#109 - 2012-02-11 22:25:22 UTC
simple way to neftbat titans... change the damage applied formula to have two new values...

if 1 = yes then x= 0.5-1
if 0= yes then x = 0.01-1

value 1 is sub capital ships
value 0 is capital ships

x is the variable in the damage applied formula... so if chance to his is anything under 0.5 then you will never hit a sub cap...

what this will do is in effect reduce titan chance to do damage to a sub cap by 50%...

hell you could even make it by 75% so if 1=true then x= 0.75-1

so that means you would have to have chance to hit be 0.75-1 to do any damage and at most would get a scratch hit...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-02-11 22:32:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Surge Roth
baltec1 wrote:
Surge Roth wrote:
lilol' me wrote:
Ok PL guy, put your money where your mouth is. Stop using Titan blobs and lets see how you become one of those losers shall we

They'd still win and then you losers would whine about what they did to get it nerfed.


Like how thier fleet got wiped out in under 20 min last night?


It's like in those movies when the main character is a child who is constantly getting bullied and in the end of the movie the kid finally wins a fight against the bully and the credits roll. Know what happens in a real world situation? The bully comes back with his friends and beats the little squirt so bad he ends up dying at the hospital.

One victory is nothing.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#111 - 2012-02-11 22:44:17 UTC
Surge Roth wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Surge Roth wrote:
lilol' me wrote:
Ok PL guy, put your money where your mouth is. Stop using Titan blobs and lets see how you become one of those losers shall we

They'd still win and then you losers would whine about what they did to get it nerfed.


Like how thier fleet got wiped out in under 20 min last night?


It's like in those movies when the main character is a child who is constantly getting bullied and in the end of the movie the kid finally wins a fight against the bully and the credits roll. Know what happens in a real world situation? The bully comes back with his friends and beats the little squirt so bad he ends up dying at the hospital.

One victory is nothing.


Your right. Unfortunatly for you we keep on blowing up these subcap fleets. Once we get the cyno jammers up in our new branch of 0.0 these massive fights will end because these people never fight without their titans on call because they know full well they need their god mode to win.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#112 - 2012-02-11 22:56:42 UTC
I find it fascinating to watch the goons in this thread and their incredibly consistent messaging. You have been trained good, I'll give you that.

Wonder what would be in the Goons best interest in game right now btw. Titan nerf or leave them as they are?

It is a mystery...

Cool
Orcirk
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2012-02-12 00:53:20 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
simple way to neftbat titans... change the damage applied formula to have two new values...

if 1 = yes then x= 0.5-1
if 0= yes then x = 0.01-1

value 1 is sub capital ships
value 0 is capital ships

x is the variable in the damage applied formula... so if chance to his is anything under 0.5 then you will never hit a sub cap...

what this will do is in effect reduce titan chance to do damage to a sub cap by 50%...

hell you could even make it by 75% so if 1=true then x= 0.75-1

so that means you would have to have chance to hit be 0.75-1 to do any damage and at most would get a scratch hit...

The problem is this:
Dreads are already fairly useless against subcaps, carriers are at best meh, and SCs are also pretty damn useless. If titans were made to ALSO be useless against subcaps, then there's not much of a reason to actually field capital ships, ever. IMO what should happen is titans getting a good tracking nerf, while removing the tracking penalty from siege mods. Suddenly dreads become a viable counter to BCs/BSs, while still being unable to hit HACs, and titans get nerfed without being made useless.

There NEEDS to be some reason to field capitals against subcaps, because otherwise there's not reason to field caps at all. Shooting structures? Subcap fleets can do that no problem, and it's not something that happens often enough to justify making the entire upper tier of ships (and the only ones that can't be used in highsec) useless for everything else.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#114 - 2012-02-12 01:06:54 UTC
Orcirk wrote:

The problem is this:
Dreads are already fairly useless against subcaps, carriers are at best meh, and SCs are also pretty damn useless. If titans were made to ALSO be useless against subcaps, then there's not much of a reason to actually field capital ships, ever. IMO what should happen is titans getting a good tracking nerf, while removing the tracking penalty from siege mods. Suddenly dreads become a viable counter to BCs/BSs, while still being unable to hit HACs, and titans get nerfed without being made useless.

There NEEDS to be some reason to field capitals against subcaps, because otherwise there's not reason to field caps at all. Shooting structures? Subcap fleets can do that no problem, and it's not something that happens often enough to justify making the entire upper tier of ships (and the only ones that can't be used in highsec) useless for everything else.


Triage carriers to support the subcaps, dreads to take out other capitals, supers to hit dreads, titans to counter the supers.
Aedon Exitius
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2012-03-14 02:21:36 UTC
Tobias Sjodin wrote:
When there's a fight, any fight there is always an individual or group of individuals who cannot cope with the fact that they lost. They will say: "I had a back injury going into the fight" or "I didn't think you would fight dirty". The excuses and rampant bullshit coming from losers will always be ever present.

So is it in EVE. Losers want game mechanics to change, not because they are imbalanced but because losers lose. The problem is that it is a slippery slope, because no matter the game mechanics, losers will always find a way to lose. Before titans, losers whined about carriers and dreadnoughts and how everyone blobbed with carriers, and that it was "unfair". Even before that, battleships were "imbalanced" and only "no-lifers who grinded isk for months" were able to get them. And then when they became cheaper the losers whined once more because the "no-lifers" grouped together and had "blobs" of battleships.

The constant pattern of meandering drivel hurf-blurfing out of the inane mind of losers is tiresome. They resort to some kind of misplaced idealism and illusions of "balance", where they really mean that they want the game imbalanced on their behalf, safety-mechanisms in the game so they won't have to deal with the fact that they're losers.

I would give losers the advice to go play another game, but even with some games being like virtual overprotective parents out there, the unfortunate fact is that "loser" is a state of mind, and no changes or game mechanics will change that fact.

You have to change yourselves first.

But that notion is so deeply buried below psychological defense mechanism, denial, projection and self-loathing that probably is impossible. As is this futile attempt at making losers realize that they are.



Video games are serious business!
Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
Plucky Adventurers
#116 - 2012-03-14 02:40:09 UTC
Quote:
Personally I like adding to the game rather than detracting from it. Give the vets new things to train for. Capital interdictors. Capital electronic warfare ships. Mobile capital cynojamming ships. Capital mines (dont affect subcaps much), minelayers and minesweepers. Deployable and dockable motherships. In short - introduce a capital level rock-paper-scissors game that will drive the scale of EVEs allready massive battles to previosly unheard of complexity and scale.




this is good
Catherine Konami
Beyond the Event Horizon
#117 - 2012-03-15 12:44:14 UTC
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or do people actually realise this but:

- many CCP players are Goons
- many CCP decisions are made by those people
- Titans at the moment are one of the last effective weapons against the Goon Drake fleets

- nerfing Titans' tracking will render them useless against Goonswarm and soon we will all be speaking "goonish"...

Also, EVE Online IMHO is going backwards instead of forwards. All the fancy ships that we were dreaming of using when we finally have the skills are becoming useless as a thousand Drakes piloted by an army of 7-day-old noobs will annahilate anything... Instead of being deadlier, stronger and more efficinent in higher tier ships the wise thing to do now is to leave them docked and set out in a BC or a HAC.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-03-15 12:54:51 UTC
Catherine Konami wrote:
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or do people actually realise this but:

- many CCP players are Goons
- many CCP decisions are made by those people
- Titans at the moment are one of the last effective weapons against the Goon Drake fleets


You're misunderstanding the whole thing.

We throwed Drakefleets in Titan Meatgrinders until CCP saw that there is nothing 800 subcaps can do to a Titan fleet.

Of course we knew it was going to happen.

And it happened. And CCP took notice.

And boom, nerf.

Cool

The plan worked as expected, thank you very much Raiden for participating in this.
Catherine Konami
Beyond the Event Horizon
#119 - 2012-03-15 13:40:16 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
Catherine Konami wrote:
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or do people actually realise this but:

- many CCP players are Goons
- many CCP decisions are made by those people
- Titans at the moment are one of the last effective weapons against the Goon Drake fleets


You're misunderstanding the whole thing.

We throwed Drakefleets in Titan Meatgrinders until CCP saw that there is nothing 800 subcaps can do to a Titan fleet.

Of course we knew it was going to happen.

And it happened. And CCP took notice.

And boom, nerf.

Cool

The plan worked as expected, thank you very much Raiden for participating in this.


I'm not saying that ALL Goons are mindless drones. Those at the helm are even dumber then a standard Goonfleet Pilot... They are like cancer, driving the ONLY host they have towards their own death and destruction. In two years nobody will even remember what EVE Online was...

Thank you very much Goonswarm for participating in this.
Sevena Black
The Black Redemption
#120 - 2012-03-15 14:01:11 UTC
To summarize:

Titans are too powerfull due to a lack of a decent counter


Ofcourse a titan would require a counter. I completely agree with that. So here we go:

A Titan requires 100 billion ISK, 3 months to build and massive logistics to properly field. Since we're all about having a balanced game that counter needs to be on par with that. Unfortunately thats not really fair cos not everybody has sov. So we need to look at counters that require massive effort, but no sov. What would 100 billion ISK get us?

A single BS costs 200 mill when properly fit. Ofcourse it should be cheaper since we're talking about alliance effort etc. But lets not get too hardcore here.

What do you think happens when 500 BS starts pounding on a Titan?

Ofcourse its rather unbalanced since you can pick em up in Jita and dont need fuel, can dock etc. But hey; lets keep things easy.
Big downside is the lag this induces. So we need more powerfull ships that dont induce as much lag. So we dont need sov to build do we? A dread is about 2 bill. 50 dreads shooting a Titan...

The main problem isnt the ship or any of its possible counters guys. It's lag. Supers are powerfull because their "lag signature" is relatively low compared to its counters.