These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123
 

Active Skill Training ( Re-post )
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#41 - 2012-01-28 08:38:52 UTC
Driitzz Ryu wrote:
I don't want to turn this game into a grind fest with this idea ( as it is already a grind fest )
Then why are you suggesting it? You keep missing the key point here: it has been tried. It proved very bad for the game. It turned the game into a grind. It distracted people from actually playing the game. It provided no beneficial gameplay.

The problem you're trying to solve does not exist. In fact, your “solution” creates problems — a huge amount of problems — for exactly zero gain. The reason you're getting negative feedback is because your idea is very very bad. It does not fit with EVE.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#42 - 2012-01-28 09:12:28 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Driitzz Ryu wrote:
TTo keep with the concept of EvE that skills take time to level up , same idea applies with the active . it's a " SIDE " bonus , you know what this mean ? it's not PRIMARY , meaning it's not forcing you to use it , .


And it automatically stops being a "side"/"optional" thing when it gives you an edge over anyone who does not take advantage of it.

Driitzz Ryu wrote:
Are you kidding me ? you saying you know better how to fly a ship without doing ANY effort for it than someone who is activly doing stuff with it ? go buy common sense.


You first.
Simply training the skills to fly a ship does not mean you KNOW how to fly it. What the current skill system does is force you to fly/use the T1 variants of more advanced ships/mods for longer periods of time. While this may not sit well with you, you must admit to its elegance as it accomplishes two things:
1) Because you are effectively stuck using T1 versions of ships and mods for a period of time you are forced to at least "gain a feel" for the innumerable intricacies, or lack of thereof, behind each ship and mod (which helps you better utilize more advanced ships/mods)...
and 2) it keeps things cheaper for the beginning players so that when (not "if") said player loses a ship they will not cry over the loss as much as they would have had they lost the advanced ship they worked so quickly for.

Your "advancement" idea does not help people "learn" their ships as it instead encourages people to grind as much as possible (in a number of already mentioned ways) to use "the best" ships and equipment available. It's like saying that doing lots of PvE will teach players how to PvP better.

Driitzz Ryu wrote:
how many time have you spent away from the game while it was in queue , how many month did it take without you doing ANY effort while it was training ?


I take time off from the game when I want to and log in when I want to. Likewise, I do things I find interesting and don't do things I don't find interesting because the (more or less) flat rate as which skills time down allows me to focus on the actual game (or meta-game) rather than on SP accumulation.
I don't have to ask myself, "well... things are slow...should I wander around for an hour or so on off-chance that there might actually be something to shoot or fire up my alt with a perma-running tank at the POS and shoot it til I can fly the best Caldari frigs?"

Beyond that... if I really don't have any character skills in a particular area that will assist me in a particular situation (or take part in completely), I must use my RL brain on how to get around that problem/limitation until my skills catch up. And when they do catch up I remain aware of the "alternate" tactics that others might use against me and my advanced ships/mods because I used them too. THIS is what makes EVE interesting IMO.

How did you Veterans start?
Driitzz Ryu
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-01-28 10:40:20 UTC
wow, i'm stumped. 2012 still working on the same skill system there was 10 years ago.
btw what will happen with Dust514 ? will it be a MMOFPS ? if so , there's going to be skill system in it right ? if it's the case how will you learn those skills ? is it going to be like EvE ? put one in and wait til it's done ? not needing for you to play it ?

do you see what's wrong there ? if you can't see really there is no point to this....
it's like trying to learn a monkey how to speak.

CCP lock up this thread this is going no where obviously.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#44 - 2012-01-28 10:53:36 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Driitzz Ryu wrote:
wow, i'm stumped. 2012 still working on the same skill system there was 10 years ago.


WoW uses a skill system similar to that used by a board game way back in the day. Just because something is old, doesn't mean that it's bad.
At the same time, just because other systems work a certain way it doesn't mean that every system should work the same. XP based skill systems have their pros and cons. EvE's system has its own.


Driitzz Ryu wrote:
put one in and wait til it's done ? not needing for you to play it ?

do you see what's wrong there ?


Yes.

Stop focusing so much on SP and play the damn game itself. If you find a problem, don't wait. Find a way around it.

How did you Veterans start?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2012-01-28 11:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Driitzz Ryu wrote:
wow, i'm stumped. 2012 still working on the same skill system there was 10 years ago.

Yes. It was fine then; it's fine now; and breaking it by introducing a mechanic that's not compatible with goals of the system doesn't improve it. In fact, 10 years ago, it had the exact mechanic you are asking for and it was promptly removed because it proved to be such a bad idea.

Also, as ShahFluffers points out: you do realise that most other games use a system that is essentially unchanged since 1974, right? That's nearly 40 years (and the basics of those systems is actually older than that).
Quote:
do you see what's wrong there ?

What's wrong is that you assume that all games work the same and that they all follow the same logic. EVE is a rather unique game that does things differently because it wants to provide a different gameplay. In particular, it wants you to play the game rather than be distracted by irrelevancies and by the standard bone-headed ProgressQuest grind.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#46 - 2012-01-28 19:59:22 UTC
Driitzz Ryu wrote:
it's like trying to learn a monkey how to speak.

Oh, the irony.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#47 - 2012-01-28 22:04:46 UTC
Driitzz Ryu wrote:
It's like you are saying " i don't want to get rewarded for playing / doing activity "
you are saying you prefer to put a skill on queues , and come back few days later when it's over and put another skill in and repeat.


The entire point of the current SP system is to avoid rewarding people who have more time to play the game with more power.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Baaa Shakiel
Kinnah Incorporated
#48 - 2012-02-11 19:59:43 UTC
-1

This will only promote SP grinding behavior... adds a whole new layer of isk-grinding that already exists... Carebear much? If this system gets put in place, eve will REALLY be filled with BOTS(mission bots, mining bots, market bots & now... SP-Grinding BOTS!). And we all where that is going to lead us.

Lets not even forget that an insane

Yea, it sucks to be flying that T1 forever.... but that's wat meta-1 to meta-4 mods and faction ammo are for. In fact I dare say that I use faction ammo more often than T2 ammo since t2 ammo has tracking penalties... so in tat case, as far as mods are concerned, T2 may not mean the best.

But by flying a cheap ship, I can get a feel for the ship and know where it's limits are before I sell my liver and kidney to get the T2 version. I've seen plenty of T1s take out Big Ass Ships. Just saw a Velator(rookie) **** a Tornado today. :D

Also blowing up a 10 million T1 cruiser in a fight is lowers the potential of rage-quitters compared to a 100million T2 cruiser.

Eve is all about the META-Game, not about how much iskies or SP you have. It's because of that T1 Rifters Blobbing the S*** out of "Uber-Spanking-Faction Fit" Battleships becomes possible. Tell your friend to think out of the box, work around the SP limitations or do what the rest have been saying - go to other MMOs. :D

Maybe if one uses the Plex/Aurum to exchange for accelerated SP gain for a week or 2(1.5x?). That much I can entertain. It's prolly gonna kill the TOON market though. :(

Who Said that Noob Ships SuCK? http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15091146#lostLoadout

Buddy Program Available - Start off with Millions of Isk! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=9874&p=10
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#49 - 2012-02-11 20:48:02 UTC
Ok, this is not impossible, but ultimately it has to be popular in order to be desirable.

First, the characters are being trained by downloading skills over time. More difficult or complicated skills take longer for this reason.
It happens regardless of your location, interrupted only for clone jumping.

If you want it to be faster, you need to define how you would increase the speed. The current version uses your connection to your pod's systems, so it would need to replace that in some manner, or improve upon it.

Where do people go to learn anything? Schools or universities.

For a nominal fee, possibly modified by your faction, you could dock at a station run by the school teaching what you wanted, and double your learning speed for as long as you were docked.
In the event this is considered to reduce playing, the character would just need to get a booster drug for 24 hours of double speed on the specific skill.
(Have lousy faction? Cannot get to a teaching school for the skill you want? These could be sold on the market for a fee as well, but you would need to pay the price the reseller set instead)

This could be balanced, but I personally have little interest in them. I just like figuring out puzzles.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Velicitia
XS Tech
#50 - 2012-02-11 20:59:02 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Ok, this is not impossible, but ultimately it has to be popular in order to be desirable.

First, the characters are being trained by downloading skills over time. More difficult or complicated skills take longer for this reason.
It happens regardless of your location, interrupted only for clone jumping.

If you want it to be faster, you need to define how you would increase the speed. The current version uses your connection to your pod's systems, so it would need to replace that in some manner, or improve upon it.

Where do people go to learn anything? Schools or universities.

For a nominal fee, possibly modified by your faction, you could dock at a station run by the school teaching what you wanted, and double your learning speed for as long as you were docked.
In the event this is considered to reduce playing, the character would just need to get a booster drug for 24 hours of double speed on the specific skill.
(Have lousy faction? Cannot get to a teaching school for the skill you want? These could be sold on the market for a fee as well, but you would need to pay the price the reseller set instead)

This could be balanced, but I personally have little interest in them. I just like figuring out puzzles.


or ... how about "skill training is fine in its current form"?

See "Learning Skills " to figure out why this idea (as presented by the OP) is bad.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#51 - 2012-02-11 21:27:41 UTC
Really I think the real problem is based on the habits and experiences gained in other games before coming to EVE, having to grind for more xp/skills seems ingrained in those games which is why I won't play them and why EVE is the only game I really want to play.

Do yourselves a favour, if you've come from another MMO, please leave all your preconceptions at the door, EVE isn't going to change and become just like that old game, you're in a new game now. The skills train while you spend time just playing the game and enjoying yourself rather than having to waste time worrying about how much effort you're putting into gaining the next new toy.

At first gaining skill points as quickly as possible is of paramount importance, I remember my first few months, so much to train and I wanted to do it all as fast as possible. Recently I took a little time out to train some alts and it was quite good not having to bother with having implants in my head, I was able to jump into an empty clone and not care about losing training time.

Quite enjoyable really.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Mag's
Azn Empire
#52 - 2012-02-11 21:42:25 UTC
There used to be this in game, but it was removed very early on. Not only was it abused back then, but CCP could see it wasn't a mechanic they either needed or desired to have in Eve.

No thanks.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#53 - 2012-02-11 22:07:43 UTC
Mag's wrote:
There used to be this in game, but it was removed very early on. Not only was it abused back then, but CCP could see it wasn't a mechanic they either needed or desired to have in Eve.

No thanks.

I must say I agree with this.

I played a MMO several years ago, that kept changing details like that with little warning.

I had a character I used on raids, and I had gone to great efforts to train them on various abilities, so he would be more desirable to choose to be a part of these events.

Then they started giving away the abilities, by making it so people now started with them for no extra cost or effort. I was quite upset by this, as I felt cheated by the changes.

Earning abilities should never be diminished by even the perception that others are able to achieve the same results with less effort.

This could certainly be seen as doing that.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Previous page123