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Kelduum Revaan - Running for CSM7

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Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2012-02-11 17:04:01 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
I've stayed out of this since the beginning just to see where it went - Eve-Search is a godsend (but I'm not going to drag up any of the deleted posts. Big smile

(this should have been posted first - but mr. (dense) objekt needed a rebuttal).

Poetic Stanziel wrote:
My purpose is twofold. First, for everyone to see what terrible ideas Kelduum would bring with him to the CSM. Mittani has pointed one of them out in this thread. Kelduum has created a thread for his terrible ideas over on the Features forum.

Second, to point out that he doesn't represent EVERYBODY, but rather the interests of only EVE University. It's fine if he wants to represent the E-Uni, but he should be honest about it. Stop pretending that he represents anybody at all, except for his corporation.


A) - Like all the major players on the CSM don't work to advance their corp/alliance/self-interests (Mittens even posted earlier in another thread that *he* doesn't rep all the players, just those who voted for him, in spite of the CCP mandate for the CSM - and he has *NOT* done a bad job).

B) - Yeah, a guy who runs an organization that teaches exposure to all aspects of the game, isn't going to have interests in all aspects of the game (i.e. - everybody).


a) If you read what I wrote, here and other places, I said that it is cool if he wants to represent a small/single interest. I think it's uncool to pretend he represents everyone, and then push forward ideas and agendas that obviously only represent/help his E-Uni organization.

b) The guy who runs the "teaching" organization doesn't even play the game, except in station and through the corp interface. He was smacked down by The Mittani earlier in this thread for pushing forward ideas for changes on mechanics he was entirely unfamiliar with. This guy engenders a tonne of confidence as he pushes forward more agendas on a disparate platform of interests.
Jensk
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#102 - 2012-02-11 17:08:09 UTC
Tip o' the hat to you, Keld.

o7
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-02-11 17:09:05 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Keld will (probably) do a good job on the CSM, and can't do any worse than the people who got elected, then faded away.

He will be ridiculed and marginalized the moment he puts forward an idea on a mechanic he doesn't really understand. Not too mention his ideas on PvP and his Capture The Flag wardec system. He's going to get laughed/berated off Skype.

He'll truly be a terrible CSM candidate.

Vote Hans Jagerblitzen. This dude understands CONFLICT. Kelduum understands only the marginalization of conflict.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2012-02-11 17:20:24 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
If Keld wanted the Uni to be "immune" - everyone would stay in NPC corps, and the uni would exist as soley chat channels, wiki's, and lessons, without all the bother of being a corp (i.e. - dec'able) at all.

Come on. You're a smart, girl. You know that to be a FAKE argument that Kelduum puts forth to pretend that the University likes conflict and wants to 100% be part of the sandbox. That's why he came up with his wardec capture the flag system that favours a corp, like the Uni (how odd!), actually ending wars before they start. Because you know, they love conflict so much.
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#105 - 2012-02-11 17:32:09 UTC
So I see the level of discursive capability by PS has adjusted from "straw man" down to "argumentum ad nauseam" now.
Darian Reymont
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2012-02-11 18:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Darian Reymont
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
He'll truly be a terrible CSM candidate.

Actually he'll truly be an outstanding CSM candidate. P

Former E-UNI Director, station pilot and snoob. https://twitter.com//DarianReymont
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#107 - 2012-02-11 19:04:17 UTC
NOTE: :CCP: - your forum software ate two of my posts... so now I'm doing it this way...Evil

Poetic Stanziel wrote:

a) If you read what I wrote, here and other places, I said that it is cool if he wants to represent a small/single interest. I think it's uncool to pretend he represents everyone, and then push forward ideas and agendas that obviously only represent/help his E-Uni organization.

b) The guy who runs the "teaching" organization doesn't even play the game, except in station and through the corp interface. He was smacked down by The Mittani earlier in this thread for pushing forward ideas for changes on mechanics he was entirely unfamiliar with. This guy engenders a tonne of confidence as he pushes forward more agendas on a disparate platform of interests.

I have read your posts, here and elsewhere. Your stated goal is to trash the Uni's reputation. Period, full stop.

Keld made a mistake, and admitted it. You "Perfect Stanziel"?

Keld has flat out stated (in this thread) that he support non-consensual pvp. Crazy ideas (even bad ones) often engender discussion.


Not unlike your rabid uni/keld bashing has....

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-02-11 19:07:46 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
He will be ridiculed and marginalized the moment he puts forward an idea on a mechanic he doesn't really understand. Not too mention his ideas on PvP and his Capture The Flag wardec system. He's going to get laughed/berated off Skype.

He'll truly be a terrible CSM candidate.

Kelduum understands only the marginalization of conflict.

Horse puckey. The 0.0 reps weren't "marginalized" when they "realized" that WH's have A, B, C ores... Neither will Keld (or anyone else for that matter, with the possible exception of Ahnk...Lol ).

I imagine that "the chairman" and the rest of the sitting CSM recognize the value of helping each other/building relationships. Something they get (that it seems you don't) is that guiding/helping someone with something the aren't 100% familiar with gains you an ally, whereas "ridiculing" will only gain you an opponent at best...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2012-02-11 19:11:05 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
The 0.0 reps weren't "marginalized" when they "realized" that WH's have A, B, C ores...

The 0.0 reps were going to marginalize themselves? Shocked

The Circle of Seven will marginalize Kelduum the moment he introduces his Capture the Flag idea to CCP.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-02-11 19:12:31 UTC
Darian Reymont wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
He'll truly be a terrible CSM candidate.

Actually he'll truly be an outstanding CSM candidate. P

Should have wrote that he'll be a truly terrible representative. Lol You're right. Thanks for the sarcastic correction, sir.

(He's already a terribad candidate. Smile)
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#111 - 2012-02-11 19:16:15 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Come on. You're a smart, girl. You know that to be a FAKE argument that Kelduum puts forth to pretend that the University likes conflict and wants to 100% be part of the sandbox. That's why he came up with his wardec capture the flag system that favours a corp, like the Uni (how odd!), actually ending wars before they start. Because you know, they love conflict so much.

And if you knew your Uni history - you would actually realize/know that this mechanic (dissolving the alliance/corp) was discussed (either around the time just before I left, or just after I left).

It is not *fake* because it was considered.

But nice try.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#112 - 2012-02-11 19:18:10 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
The 0.0 reps weren't "marginalized" when they "realized" that WH's have A, B, C ores...

The 0.0 reps were going to marginalize themselves? Shocked

The Circle of Seven will marginalize Kelduum the moment he introduces his Capture the Flag idea to CCP.

Again - you think they aren't going to try to work with each other? They would just shut someone out?


Roll


Like I said, The Mittani et al, realize the benifit of an ally. I think he'll work fine.


And just to add - I plan on supporting Keld, Mittens and Two-Step with my votes

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2012-02-11 19:18:51 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
I imagine that "the chairman" and the rest of the sitting CSM recognize the value of helping each other/building relationships. Something they get (that it seems you don't) is that guiding/helping someone with something the aren't 100% familiar with gains you an ally, whereas "ridiculing" will only gain you an opponent at best...

I understand. I also understand it would be in the Circle of Seven's best interests to support seven other candidates who they don't have to coddle. Han Jagerbltizen, for instance, understands conflict in EVE. Kelduum does not.

The other point the Circle of Seven are missing (The Mittani, Two Step, Selene, and other 0.0 candidates), is that Kelduum getting on the CSM will simply increase the ability of EVE University to recruit, which makes his position much stronger for CSM8. The more they coddle and support his run, the more in danger they put their positions for future CSMs.

*shiver* Imagine if Kelduum was the Chair someday? Yikes! There's an agenda straight out of the sub-basement of some theme park MMO.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2012-02-11 19:21:25 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
The 0.0 reps weren't "marginalized" when they "realized" that WH's have A, B, C ores...

The 0.0 reps were going to marginalize themselves? Shocked

The Circle of Seven will marginalize Kelduum the moment he introduces his Capture the Flag idea to CCP.

Again - you think they aren't going to try to work with each other? They would just shut someone out?

Roll
Of course Mittens would. He did it with Prometheus. He did it with Darius III. Why wouldn't he marginalize someone who always brought bad ideas to the table? If the bad idea guy suddenly starts supporting your position, people will start wondering if, maybe, that too is a bad idea.
Darian Reymont
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2012-02-11 19:29:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Darian Reymont
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Han Jagerbltizen, for instance, understands conflict in EVE. Kelduum does not.


Yes he does. Smile

Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Of course Mittens would. He did it with Prometheus. He did it with Darius III. Why wouldn't he marginalize someone who always brought bad ideas to the table? If the bad idea guy suddenly starts supporting your position, people will start wondering if, maybe, that too is a bad idea.


Keld, like a lot of people, has a lot of good ideas and a few bad ones. To use your logic, why would Mittens marginalize someone who brought lots of good ideas the table on the basis that he also had some (debatable) bad ones? You've had some pretty bad ideas in your time, Poetic, so I suppose you advise us all to ignore you also?

Former E-UNI Director, station pilot and snoob. https://twitter.com//DarianReymont
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2012-02-11 19:29:37 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Come on. You're a smart, girl. You know that to be a FAKE argument that Kelduum puts forth to pretend that the University likes conflict and wants to 100% be part of the sandbox. That's why he came up with his wardec capture the flag system that favours a corp, like the Uni (how odd!), actually ending wars before they start. Because you know, they love conflict so much.

And if you knew your Uni history - you would actually realize/know that this mechanic (dissolving the alliance/corp) was discussed (either around the time just before I left, or just after I left).

It is not *fake* because it was considered.

Discussed and considered are two different things. It was discussed. Kelduum allowed it to be discussed. It was never something he considered. It wasn't something most of the directors considered. Silentbrick, giving up his fake admiralcy? *laugh* Kelduum giving up the biggest pulpit in highsec? You know how many newbs view him as a demigod? Keld would never give that up. Or how about Irdalth? Where else would he get to practice writing really sh*tty code and terribad user interfaces? (Hmm, there might be a job for him on the CCP UI team. Blink)

They were just letting Darian vent. Because he's a good guy. EVE Uni was never in any danger of ever being dissolved.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2012-02-11 19:33:58 UTC
Darian Reymont wrote:
Keld, like a lot of people, has a lot of good ideas and a few bad ones. To use your logic, why would Mittens marginalize someone who brought lots of good ideas the table on the basis that he also had some (debatable) bad ones? You've had some pretty bad ideas in your time, Poetic, so I suppose you advise us all to ignore you also?
I'm not running for the CSM.

I'm still waiting for the good Kelduum ideas. The only campaign platform he's fleshed out has been War Declaration Mechanics, and his idea is one giant convoluted mess. And then he made some comment about ganking and -10 folks being unable to dock into ships in highsec ... that was dumb too.

I suppose he has some good ideas concerning the corp interface ... but other than Kelduum and a few other CEOs of large corporations/alliances, who the hell gives a sh*t about the corp interface?
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-02-11 19:38:08 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I suppose he has some good ideas concerning the corp interface ... but other than Kelduum and a few other CEOs of large corporations/alliances, who the hell gives a sh*t about the corp interface?

Anybody who's ever dealt with the dam dinosaur? Shocked

If corp interface is his *only* qualification - it would still be enough, because that *needs* iterating/fixing/changing. And if you knew 1/2 as much as you think you do, you would realize that the corp interface (and it's cludgy operation now) is of interest to most corps/alliances - Hell, besides POS mechanics, it's one of the gripes WH corps have with W/Space... More granularity is needed and the ability to set permissions differently.

But that's not important/relevant to you, so long as you can trash the Uni...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
testobjekt
Goonswarm Federation Human Resources
#119 - 2012-02-11 19:44:50 UTC
As I said earlier, Kelduums plattform is only "i'm a cool dude"+"i'm EvE-U ceo, i have lots of members that will vote for me no matter what" +"i want good stuff"+"i'm highsec"

if thats the candidate you want sure, vote for him.

He wants the CSM tag at his name to further the recruitment of EVE-U.

If he says EVE-U is a 100% legit organisation i challenge him to publish a full corp api key to proof this! if he does not comply we know he has something to hide and the "university" is not legit!



But if you consider the structure of Highsec, with lots of small/medium corps, you dont want to vote for him. He will support fixes for big corp issues (because that are the issues he notices everyday) and will be in favor of stuff that benefits HIS playstyle.

Is he the anti Mittani guy? hell no. He probably will either be marginalized by the 0.0 candidates, or they will use him for stuff they want to (corp/alliance interface).

Vote for people like Issler Dainze (industrialists) Hans Jagerblitze/ Alkseyev Karrde. This are people who UNDERSTAND your issues far better then Kelduum probably ever will.
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#120 - 2012-02-11 19:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Shazzam Vokanavom
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
The other point the Circle of Seven are missing (The Mittani, Two Step, Selene, and other 0.0 candidates), is that Kelduum getting on the CSM will simply increase the ability of EVE University to recruit, which makes his position much stronger for CSM8. The more they coddle and support his run, the more in danger they put their positions for future CSMs.


Why would this be in anyway different from any other CSM? Are you also confirming that the present CSMs therefore at present achieve a certain amount of meta-influence due to their positions? (Rhetorical, I dont put stock in your "straw man" claims).

I have another theory, perhaps they actually consider to some extent that Kelduum might be a useful candidate to have and wont pander to your obvious attempts at insighting derision amongst the candidates where it isn't an issue? But then I suppose inciting candidate hostilities would be entertaining for you. Nothing to do with voters or ideas at all. Roll

To be honest considering the unique stance and presence of the EvE Uni, how it has established itself to be the recognised new player corporation of choice and recommended by people in the recruitment channel and elsehwere as an habitual choice for such purposes I think gives some testimony and credibility to what Kelduum and his colleagues have acheived in EvE. And as such I doubt it needs much more advertising or accreditation to improve recruitment.

If you think the false rantings of a dissaffected player who was ejected from EvE Uni due to conflicting interests and now has an unhealthy fanatacism to troll his thread purely as a smear campaign can upset all of that effort you really are delluded. If anything your substantiating the reasons why a person like yourself was formally removed from their organisation, and for good reasons it seems.

They say you measure a tree by its fruits, I see EvE Uni to be a pretty big orchard. Though unfotunatley it seems to have produced one big nut in the process. But then again I suppose it could be seen as a lesson of not be able to cater for the "special" needs of every individual. However, given how you portray yourself, I don't think they are seeing it too much as a missed opportunity.

If they were inclined to some humour they might present you with an honorary degree in "Awoxer" studies however.