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Omen Buff
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Kid Chaos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-02-10 20:03:22 UTC
As a noob who is interested in Amarr ships and laser platforms in general, I was very disappointed to learn that everyone has a very low opinion of the Omen.

My understanding is that it is rarely utilized because it has fitting issues that can really only be overcome by dedicating a couple of low slots to CPU and PG upgrades. Because of this there really isn't a laser bombardment ship prior to the Harbinger, which is a little bulky for my tastes. The Zealot and Navy Issue Omen, while serviceable, are not really a replacement for an affordable T1 Cruiser.

I guess my real question is, if 90% of the community recognizes that the ship is under powered compared to ships like the Rupture, Thorax, or Vexor (the percentage of players that care is much lower), then why hasn't there been a buff to the ship (even a minor one) to make it a viable option?

Is increasing the CPU / PG enough to make the Omen a decent ship simply a much more difficult task for CCP then I think it is, or is there just too little interest on the part of the community to even bother with it? Is there some other reason that buffing the ship's fitting capabilities would be bad for the game that I'm overlooking?

Your input is appreciated.
Aestivalis Saidrian
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#2 - 2012-02-10 20:09:29 UTC
The problem with the Omen is is if you have the Omen, you can fly a Maller. Maller with autocannons is a better ship then an Omen.
Alara IonStorm
#3 - 2012-02-10 20:57:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
They are planing to Buff T1 Cruisers according to the CSM Minutes in general since they are pretty much overshadowed by Tier 2 Battlecrusers. The Omen was used as an Example.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-02-10 21:20:12 UTC
I flew a Navy Omen for a bit before, I forgot that the only reason it worked was rat specific hardners and I flew into a mission that needed the opposite ones Sad It was late and I was pretty tired, but I learned an expensive lesson. (Other than don't fly in missions that will spawn 6 web/scram frigates right on top of you. I expected them to spawn at a reasonable range where I could pick off a couple before they would ruin my day.) I should also mention it was an L4 mission. I would not recommend those in a T1 or faction cruiser.
Mac Tir
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-02-10 21:22:25 UTC
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:
The problem with the Omen is is if you have the Omen, you can fly a Maller. Maller with autocannons is a better ship then an Omen.


Which is a glaring indicator of how sub-par the Omen currently is.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-02-10 23:43:15 UTC
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:
The problem with the Omen is is if you have the Omen, you can fly a Maller. Maller with autocannons is a better ship then an Omen.


Key Word

Autocannons....

Amarr n00bs either don't know this or don't want to spend the time to train for niche fitting that high SP toons can pull off like AC Mallers and AC Punishers to name two common ones. Max firepower is nice but its not an exclusive fitting option. Nobody says you have to jam the biggest guns you can on a ship. Sometimes you can be successful stepping down to less powerful guns. Thats why there are so many options, variety is more than a spice. The same can be said when it comes to tanking options.

Yet. Neither are much good with Lasers though at first glance as is much belabored, but with higher level fitting skills you can make them work.

That all being said.

OP if you like the Omen, get the Navy Omen. It is what the Omen should be that isn't it. Or, be your own man and fly what you want to fly and make it work for you. Just becuase others don't like it doesn't lower its value in my opinion.

Groupthink is rampant in this game as seen by FOTW behavior prevalent everywhere and also why everyone flies Drakes and Tengus Roll

Trust me when I say that you can be successful with whatever you fly if you take the time to figure out what works for you and what you can pull off with the ship you want to fly. Alot of folks Min/Max in this game like a bunch of D&D powergamers in their mom's basement. Cool

Don't be that guy!
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-02-10 23:48:27 UTC
Mavnas wrote:
I flew a Navy Omen for a bit before, I forgot that the only reason it worked was rat specific hardners and I flew into a mission that needed the opposite ones Sad It was late and I was pretty tired, but I learned an expensive lesson. (Other than don't fly in missions that will spawn 6 web/scram frigates right on top of you. I expected them to spawn at a reasonable range where I could pick off a couple before they would ruin my day.) I should also mention it was an L4 mission. I would not recommend those in a T1 or faction cruiser.


You took a knife to a gunfight. Not exactly the fault of your Navy Omen IMO.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Belthazor4011
Battle BV Redux
#8 - 2012-02-11 03:51:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Belthazor4011
Putting the Omen vs the Thorax and Rupture is not fair, they're higher tier and more expensive then the Omen. That said the potentially awesome Omen is just too hard to fit.

As a side note the Navy Omen is one of the best faction cruisers out there, I love that thing.
Ravenesa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-02-11 07:07:33 UTC
The Omen is an odd duck, needs a bit more PG and it would be workable. Typically I use an 800 Plate/AB setup with FMP's for about 400+ DPS and 23k EHP if you use rigs.

MWD Omen are best with beam bits and a long point.

The Omen as a solo boat is fairly bad, so is the Maller. It is a brick. Arby is always a welcome addition.

Omen should never be the first to engage, it wants to get into ranges after the first volley so it wont get primaried.

The Maller is a first in ship, can but setup with insane EHP for a cruiser.

Navy Omen hits like a tank of a ship. DPS of a Zealot, but not the range, uses drones, can fit a similar raw EHP tank, but lacks the T2 resists of the Zealot.

The Navy Augoror can fit an even more nutso EHP tank
Elindreal
Planetary Interactors
#10 - 2012-02-11 07:15:55 UTC
Moa is best...
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#11 - 2012-02-11 08:07:30 UTC
Low-/Mid-tier T1 Cruisers such as the Omen will get a hefty boost when/if CCP make good on the promise made in the minutes to minimize the effect of tiers (doubt they'll remove them outright, takes more balancing prowess than they possess).

Now if only the Maller was Abaddonified ... hahahaha.
Aestivalis Saidrian
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#12 - 2012-02-11 09:04:05 UTC
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:
The problem with the Omen is is if you have the Omen, you can fly a Maller. Maller with autocannons is a better ship then an Omen.

Groupthink is rampant in this game as seen by FOTW behavior prevalent everywhere and also why everyone flies Drakes and Tengus Roll

Trust me when I say that you can be successful with whatever you fly if you take the time to figure out what works for you and what you can pull off with the ship you want to fly. Alot of folks Min/Max in this game like a bunch of D&D powergamers in their mom's basement. Cool

Don't be that guy!


Its not "Groupthink" when the thing in question works. Drakes haven't been FotM. They've been in service for years in Null Sec.

The Autocannons on a Maller thing is more of a matter of the fact that it trades that "second bonus" for a more effective ship. So you get a one bonus hull. Same thing with the Punisher. Or 1400s on a Geddon/Apoc. The gun discount bonus is ******* worthless outside of missioning and even then, you're better off using different guns.

Plus when you lose stuff, its gone, better math it out on the drawing board to minimize that risk. Roll
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#13 - 2012-02-12 12:45:11 UTC
most T1 cruisers are suffering from either lack of fitting space Grid/CPU wise or are lacking a decernable role that is actually usefull with there currant slot layout i.e the Bellicouse.

a complete overhaul of all of the T1 Cruisers would be very much welcome.
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#14 - 2012-02-12 13:00:52 UTC
Don´t want to sound harsh, but...
If you like the Omen, why don´t you make it work -for you-. There are so many players out there, each of them has an oppinion about this ship and that ship. Many will tell you loudly "This ships sucks" and a few will whisper "but I can still use it to good effect". Get yourself a Fitting tool and play around, train the skills you need and train using the ship of your choice. After a few rounds, change the fitting around, test what works and what not. The best killmails are those, were an -by public oppinion- inferior ship kills a FOTM.
Do either that, or just become another Geddon/Drake/Cyna pilot, were killmails are just another message of "Well, already had that".

I like my Celestis and my Imicus...
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-02-12 15:42:54 UTC
Yes the Omen is impossible to fit with fitting mods. Yes it needs to be looked at, more the other ships but most T1 cruisers need some love, the Omen won't be singled out, so you'll have to wait till the general buff comes in.
And yes, lasers on Amarr T1 ships fair poorly on anything smaller than a Harbinger.
Mike712
Tenth Plague of Egypt
#16 - 2012-02-12 17:40:35 UTC
[Omen, PvP Omen]
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II
Tracking Enhancer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
Large Shield Extender II

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x3


If you could manage this with a nano instead of the co-proc it would actually be pretty decent. 329 DPS @ 23km isn't half bad plus with a nano it would go 1600m/s+

Regards, Mike712 The BattleClinic Team
Dalts
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#17 - 2012-02-12 19:53:00 UTC
Mike712 wrote:
[Omen, PvP Omen]
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II
Tracking Enhancer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
Large Shield Extender II

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x3


If you could manage this with a nano instead of the co-proc it would actually be pretty decent. 329 DPS @ 23km isn't half bad plus with a nano it would go 1600m/s+


Bad man Mike, bad man! Whenever I see threads like this I get tempted, and then spend hours upon hours attempting to wring a decent fit out of the Omen, hours that are wasted and I can never get back!
Natasha Hec
Croatoan Enterprises
#18 - 2012-02-12 22:35:28 UTC
Mike712 wrote:
[Omen, PvP Omen]
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II
Tracking Enhancer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
Large Shield Extender II

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x3


If you could manage this with a nano instead of the co-proc it would actually be pretty decent. 329 DPS @ 23km isn't half bad plus with a nano it would go 1600m/s+



Its possible it just involves using a fairly large amount of named mods
To mare
Advanced Technology
#19 - 2012-02-12 23:53:24 UTC
alot of the T1 cruiser have fitting issue plus some terrible slot layouts (and the tier system dont help with this), plus their speed isnt much superior to the BC.
give them a speed boost, give all the combat cruiser 13-14 slots and some extra fitting to the one that need it (caracal/omen/vexor/stabber)
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-02-13 22:52:22 UTC
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
Mavnas wrote:
I flew a Navy Omen for a bit before, I forgot that the only reason it worked was rat specific hardners and I flew into a mission that needed the opposite ones Sad It was late and I was pretty tired, but I learned an expensive lesson. (Other than don't fly in missions that will spawn 6 web/scram frigates right on top of you. I expected them to spawn at a reasonable range where I could pick off a couple before they would ruin my day.) I should also mention it was an L4 mission. I would not recommend those in a T1 or faction cruiser.


You took a knife to a gunfight. Not exactly the fault of your Navy Omen IMO.


Yeah. I was doing pretty well with my slicer up to that point, thought I could get something with a bit more gank and buffer in on the action and realized just how much sig and speed were helping me on the slicer. I used to joke about shield tanking it (i.e. fitting no defensive mods whatsoever).
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