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Titan nerf - is it happening?
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TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-02-10 16:42:30 UTC
DelBoy Trades wrote:
They cost nearly 100billion isk, the least they can do is insta pop your ****** dominix.


Since when did price have anything to do with performance?

You can take a $2 million Bugatti Veyron and put it up against a tuned Skyline GTR and the Veyron will loose around a track. For abour $1.8 million less spent.

Titan weapons are so large that giving them fast tracking makes no sense at all. They should only be able to hit other Supers / Titans.

The thought of being able to hit a HIC is just not right.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2012-02-10 16:42:39 UTC
DelBoy Trades wrote:
They cost nearly 100billion isk, the least they can do is insta pop your ****** dominix.


My pirate BS should be able to insta pop any frigate with its main guns because it costs so much more.
Tore Vest
#23 - 2012-02-10 16:45:20 UTC
jelly anyone ? Bear

No troll.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-02-10 16:46:26 UTC
npc corps seem really opinionated on titans for some reason
WhyTry1
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2012-02-10 17:33:36 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
DelBoy Trades wrote:
They cost nearly 100billion isk, the least they can do is insta pop your ****** dominix.


Since when did price have anything to do with performance?

You can take a $2 million Bugatti Veyron and put it up against a tuned Skyline GTR and the Veyron will loose around a track. For abour $1.8 million less spent.

Titan weapons are so large that giving them fast tracking makes no sense at all. They should only be able to hit other Supers / Titans.

The thought of being able to hit a HIC is just not right.

This... And it defeats the whole point of a Hic when it can be instantly turned into flames but what it's supposed to be stopping
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#26 - 2012-02-10 17:43:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
DelBoy Trades wrote:
They cost nearly 100billion isk, the least they can do is insta pop your ****** dominix.

So if I spend 200 billion ISK on my Dominix, I will be able to insta-pop your titan?

Cost is not a balancing factor. Cost is a (very weak) factor in determining availability. Availability may be a balancing factor if you so choose (and utterly suck at balancing things), but is better used as just a pure epeen factor.

More to the point, if cost was a balancing factor, then either Titans would have to be nerfed to… oh… 1/20th of their current strength, or they would have to add another three zeros at the end of the price in order to match the “marginal improvement for magnitudes larger cost” progression of the rest of the game.
leich
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#27 - 2012-02-10 18:51:17 UTC
Most of the posts in this thread miss the issue completely

I can counter BS

I can counter dreads and carriers

i can counter all other ship types

i cant counter titan blobs without more titans.

the issue is not that A titan can track subcaps. It;s that 150 titans cannot be countered without 150 titans.

It was the same issue with supers and is the reason the supers nerf was a complete waste of time. a blob of 50 supers could kill a 100 man BS gang and can still kill 100 man BS gang. but why use supers when titans are better at it.

Supers should be powerfull so should titans But there does need to be ways to counter them without bringing copy paste gang.
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-02-10 18:57:28 UTC
I've been here for a few big rebalancing patches now. The general theme is that whenever X is (nearly) unbeatable, save "Bring more of X!", X and everything related to it always get sweeping rebalances that end up being good for the game in the long run (after much QQ and L2P on the forums, of course). It happened with torps, it happened with T2 BPOs, it happened with nano fits, it'll happen to caps too.

KB Link
Hemmo Paskiainen
#29 - 2012-02-10 19:11:38 UTC
Titans are not glascannon when tracking fit. You cant tackle them since insta pop hic's or dicters. Only way to counter them is by a bigger blob. Atm there is one blob in eve that has the most supers in eve so they can not be countered by other supers because the first blob is too big and loss value too high. Therefor it is not possible to counter fleets of titans.

The newets trick is to target paint primaries. Instead of making the tracking very good, the sig radius is getting higher. So current stuation is that nothing has been cahnged and ccp need to rebalance them again.

Intoducing stuff properly is not something ccp is very good at. This can be the sandbox nature of eve or just the poo capabilities of the dev modifing the content. Lack of ingame pvp knowlage is rumourd to be the issue at CCP office in Reikjavik.

Inbefore another 10k subscriber loss: NERFBAT IT PROPERLY CCP

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
LtCol Laurentius
The Imperial Sardaukar
#30 - 2012-02-10 22:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: LtCol Laurentius
WhyTry1 wrote:
Just wondered if the Titan tracking nerf and stopping them from insta popping sub caps was still going to happen?


Yes

Lets make sure that Capitals cant hit battleship sized targets.

And while we're at it, lets make sure that battleships cant hit cruisersized targets, and cruisers cant hit frigatesized targets. Seems only fair.

In 6 months, all of EVE would be back in frigs. Ah, the good 'ol days.


Roll
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#31 - 2012-02-10 22:53:20 UTC
LtCol Laurentius wrote:


Yes

Lets make sure that Capitals cant hit battleship sized targets.

And while we're at it, lets make sure that battleships cant hit cruisersized targets, and cruisers cant hit frigatesized targets. Seems only fair.

In 6 months, all of EVE would be back in frigs. Ah, the good 'ol days.


Roll


Battleship is to a titan what a frigate is to a battleship. Try to fit frigates with BS turrets.
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#32 - 2012-02-10 22:54:21 UTC
Whiners like you really are starting to annoy me, I was in support of supercaps getting nerfed and they did in crucible in that they now require a support fleet to properly use.

Log off timers means they can't escape anymore.

Removal of drones, makes them more susceptible to subcaps, and supercarriers can no carrier a full flight of both bombers and fighters.

Finally Doomsdays can no longer hit subcaps.

Titans are getting assistance from a support fleet with webs and painters.

Titans can no longer receive Tracking Link and Remote sensor boost.

Don't nerf titans, just because the people fielding them are doing what they're supposed to do and backing it up with a support fleet.

The nerf has been done and I believe it is enough.

Besides let say they nerf supercaps to complete oblivion, would that actually change the gamefield?

It would not, people will move on to the next big thing and those who are able to field titans will now field something else in greater numbers than you can.

Nothing changes, the game moves on, the strong get stronger and the weak get weaker.

CCP will lose several of their long term loyal customers when they make supercaps useless to the point that no one would field them.

You would anger several alliances, pilots, industrialists, traders, etc. The building and use of titan involves many people, you want to spit on their time and effort, just because you are unhappy?

Think about it.
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-02-10 23:25:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Clith wrote:
Those tracking titans are trading any decent tank they can get in order to make them hit smaller ships, making them a giant glass cannon. Nothing needs changing


A glass cannon with more EHP and RR support than most fleets...

I'd freaking hope so. they cost more than those fleets and require more materials, time, and effort. Also, it makes sense for giants to be stupid strong.

But, sorry. Wanting to nerf ships that are fine because they rustled your jimmies isn't balance.
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-02-10 23:27:46 UTC
DelBoy Trades wrote:
They cost nearly 100billion isk, the least they can do is insta pop your ****** dominix.


Thank you.
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-02-10 23:29:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
DelBoy Trades wrote:
They cost nearly 100billion isk, the least they can do is insta pop your ****** dominix.


My pirate BS should be able to insta pop any frigate with its main guns because it costs so much more.

But they do...
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-02-10 23:36:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:
DelBoy Trades wrote:
They cost nearly 100billion isk, the least they can do is insta pop your ****** dominix.

So if I spend 200 billion ISK on my Dominix, I will be able to insta-pop your titan?

Cost is not a balancing factor. Cost is a (very weak) factor in determining availability. Availability may be a balancing factor if you so choose (and utterly suck at balancing things), but is better used as just a pure epeen factor.

More to the point, if cost was a balancing factor, then either Titans would have to be nerfed to… oh… 1/20th of their current strength, or they would have to add another three zeros at the end of the price in order to match the “marginal improvement for magnitudes larger cost” progression of the rest of the game.



Considering the price tag is only one of the factors, yea, it is balanced. The overall effort it takes to field a titan compared to a fleet of battleships is worlds apart. Any ******* can make a sub cap ship and fly around in it as they please. The same can't be said for titans. There's a reason why they're used by alliances with a lot of people in them. Unlike that ****** sup cap fleet, it required group effort to field. But i forget we live in a world where people want instant gratification and disregard how people got the power they have in the first place and just assume it's unfair.
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#37 - 2012-02-10 23:37:11 UTC
The issue with supercaps was that they were solo pwnmobiles.

But now they require a support fleet or else they will die.

Titans are only able to hit ships because of that support fleet of webbers and painters, you want to punish them because they were using legitimate gameplay tactics?

Maybe you should do something about the support fleet with your own. When the support fleet is gone, those titans and supercarriers are done for.
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-02-10 23:40:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
LtCol Laurentius wrote:


Yes

Lets make sure that Capitals cant hit battleship sized targets.

And while we're at it, lets make sure that battleships cant hit cruisersized targets, and cruisers cant hit frigatesized targets. Seems only fair.

In 6 months, all of EVE would be back in frigs. Ah, the good 'ol days.


Roll


Battleship is to a titan what a frigate is to a battleship. Try to fit frigates with BS turrets.

when my mate has them pinned down or if they're so far out that their angular velocity doesn't matter... yea, I can hit them, pal.
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#39 - 2012-02-10 23:48:45 UTC
Surge Roth wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
LtCol Laurentius wrote:


Yes

Lets make sure that Capitals cant hit battleship sized targets.

And while we're at it, lets make sure that battleships cant hit cruisersized targets, and cruisers cant hit frigatesized targets. Seems only fair.

In 6 months, all of EVE would be back in frigs. Ah, the good 'ol days.


Roll


Battleship is to a titan what a frigate is to a battleship. Try to fit frigates with BS turrets.

when my mate has them pinned down or if they're so far out that their angular velocity doesn't matter... yea, I can hit them, pal.


The applies to when you pin down a Battleship with web and painter enough that a titan can hit it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#40 - 2012-02-10 23:52:36 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Surge Roth wrote:

when my mate has them pinned down or if they're so far out that their angular velocity doesn't matter... yea, I can hit them, pal.


Newsflash bud.

Drakes are getting swatted out of the sky at close range. Once 50 titans hit the field you cant do squat because you die so fast. 0.0 is now a game of who has the most titans and right now there is only one winner every time.