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How to deal with can flippers?
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BRAKA
Nexus Research and Development
#21 - 2011-09-19 05:04:00 UTC
only two ways to deal with it effectively :

#1 - bm a few spots in the belt with a decent amount of ore around your ship.... mine till your full then dock and drop off what you've mined. Warp back to one of your bm's and repeat

#2 - get a second account or a friend and use an orca
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#22 - 2011-09-19 06:17:23 UTC
I prefer to stay calm, chat them up and then... I scam them by jettisoning a single Veldspar Lol

No really. Every second this flipper wastes guarding his can, is a second another miner can do his work. And its really fun smacking this guys for hoursSmile
Zephyrus II
Cardboard Enterprises
#23 - 2011-09-19 16:19:47 UTC
When I do it, I don't screw around. If they start playing games then you know they probably aren't ever going to take the can anyway. In that case, if there's an indy buddy around, I bring him in and get him to take the ore. If not, I just pop the can. More efficient by far.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#24 - 2011-09-19 16:58:40 UTC
Mudkest wrote:
how to deal with can flippers? easy, dont mine in densly populated areas. Mine in jita or rens and your can will be flipped, go some 5-10 jumps away and it'll happen a lot less(if at all depending on the system you are in)


This is really it in a nutshell. All the other suggestions are great but don't do much for a guy flying a retriever.

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stavrious
Filikh Etairia
#25 - 2011-09-20 08:46:51 UTC
Alvar Kesh wrote:
Another trick I saw is that you change to a noob ship and flip the can back. This way you get flaged but all the flipper can shoot is a noob ship, no big loss for you if it kills you and you can keep this up until he gets mad. The ore than you can retrieve using an alt or friend or wait out the 15min.




if you do that he will simply can flip it again and you end up exactly in the same situation minus one noob ship
Satav
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2011-09-21 18:24:05 UTC
Invest in an alt. an Orca alt to be precise.

Most things in eve take at least 2 account to be practical in time and money.
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Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#27 - 2011-09-21 19:19:09 UTC
[quote=mxzf]I've been mining for years and have never once had a can of mine flipped. The best way to handle it is just to find a quiet backwater system and mine there in peace. Just find a dead-end system atleast 6-7j from any major trade hub with less than 10 belts and it should be pretty quiet most of the time./quote]

100% this. Also, there won't be any competition for the roids. The only time I'd mine in a busy system would be if I were in the mood to mess around with a can flipper for lulz.

No good deed goes unpunished
Alain Kinsella
#28 - 2011-09-21 22:41:06 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
Mudkest wrote:
how to deal with can flippers? easy, dont mine in densly populated areas. Mine in jita or rens and your can will be flipped, go some 5-10 jumps away and it'll happen a lot less(if at all depending on the system you are in)


This is really it in a nutshell. All the other suggestions are great but don't do much for a guy flying a retriever.


You can always do what I did at the time - mine ore in an Ice system. Smile Keep Local (or other appropriate intel) in a separate window, dock when WTF messages start popping up.

Also, Retrievers are pretty easy to recoup their cost. I think I had mined enough to buy another (/w insurance) after an hour or so.

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Zleon Leigh
#29 - 2011-09-22 03:57:35 UTC
A GSC's drop line does work very well, but of course a bit of work to get installed. One nice benefit is that if you don't feel like hauling when you finish mining you can just come back to them later.

1) Highly recommend that you anchor them right after downtime if at all possible. They have to be 2K meters away from any roids for the anchor to take. If someone has mined out a roid within the 2K limit it will pop the GSC when it respawns after the next downtime.

Beware! There is a bug that can cause GSC's to pop after a downtime, even if no asteroids are within the 2K limit. It is tied to a bug related to the 30 day access timer. I went round and round on a petition, them claiming that I hadn't revisited the GSC's within 30 days, even though I had anchored right after DT the day before. It was only when I was able to point out that I hadn't even been in the game 30 days, therefore not even owning any GSC's much less having anchored them, that I finally convinced them that there was a bug. Apologies and replacements were then provided, but left a really bad taste in my mouth about the handling of bugs by CCP. Never saw a release claiming to have fixed the problem, so bug is very likely still in play.

2) Agree with prior suggestion about anchoring in multiple systems - you can just mine until you drop, then came back and haul until you drop. :)


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Mmily Ylimm
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2011-09-22 09:00:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mmily Ylimm
Try to cut down travelling time for the hauler between GSCs by planting two or more lines 5 m apart, then you can do your mining / hauling down the middle of them.
Tugrath Akers
Greenhorn Limbo
#31 - 2011-09-22 16:07:30 UTC
If you are canning, may as well make yours blue right away to avoid confusion.
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#32 - 2011-09-23 07:20:18 UTC  |  Edited by: DetKhord Saisio
All the above are optional methods for mining. To go along with that, I figure the pro's and con's can help you decide which method works best for you. Often different situations call for using 1, 2, 3, or a combination of them.

1) Jetcan - transfer your ore from your cargohold into a jettisoned container.
1a) Pro's: 27,500 m^3 (Very large) cargo capacity. I like to prepare with "free" spot bookmarks, then jettison the spot bm thereby creating an empty jetcan which allows for simple and quick transfers between ships (If mining from a hidden location, remove your spot bm before leaving to "pop" the can in order to keep your mining location secure).
1b) Cons: increased risk, since jettison cans' contents are not secure; be prepared to lose the contents or defend against an attack if you steal it back; Jettison timer limit per ship of three minutes (workaround is jetcan from each ship). Jetcan expires after two hours, so you will lose any contents

2) GSC - transfer your ore from your cargohold into a giant secure container (GSC)
2a) Pro's: secure contents and relatively cheap, compared to training for and buying an Orca
2b) Cons: 3900 m^3 cargo capacity relatively small, compared to jetcan. Also, with maxed skills in a Hulk the mined amount can fill more than one GSC every cycle (at least 1700 m^3 / minute). Un-secure location since anchoring a GSC advertises the location to any passersby; avoid using GSC in a hidden mining area. Multiple GSC must be anchored 5 km from any wrecks, other anchored objects, asteroids, etc.

3) Ship - transfer your ore from your cargohold directly into a ship's Corporate Hanger, usually an Orca.
3a) Pro's: secure contents and Corporate Hangar (40,000 m^3) cargo capacity is largest of these three optional methods, plus the Orca's Ore Hold (50,000 m^3) and Cargohold (up to 90,000 m^3) for a total ore capacity of up to 180,000 m^3 make this the best overall choice of the three. Orca increased tractor beam range (50,000 km) helps when managing mining operations in larger asteroid belts.
3b) Con's: huge risk due to investment required and very slow speed of Orca

*Note: please correct me if not accurate
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#33 - 2011-09-23 13:48:38 UTC
Orca's cargo bay (but not the corp hangar or the ore bay) increases in size with every level of Industrial Command Ships. The cargo bay (but not the ship bay, ore bay or corp hangar) is also affected by cargo rigs and low-slot cargo expanders.

60-90k m3 is a common size for the Orca's cargo bay (depending on whether you run a DC2 in a low-slot for more tank).
Rosenkranz
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-09-24 14:29:59 UTC
If you're flying a retriever, you did the right thing. Even a full can of ore is only about 30min lost. Heck, even if you were flying a hulk, you did the right thing as that would only represent a 15min loss.

If you wanna snub said flipper, just ignore em. Fill your cargo. Recall your drones and just leave em with the can.

If you have a cloaky drake with a pvp fit, you could warp back to the area and wait to see if the flipper comes back with a indy and then have some fun. But overall, you problably did the best thing.

Once you get to fly a hulk you can rig it for cargo optimization and use cargo expanders and boost your hold to over 17000m3.

At that point, don't bother jetcan mining, just warp back to the station.

As long as you bookmark your spots right, when that last cycle is close to done, just align to the station and when the cycle finishes hit dock and you're instantly into warp. Will help cut the turn around time.
Cole Wolfen
The Wolfen Foundation
#35 - 2011-09-25 16:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Cole Wolfen
Lots of advice so far but I would add, keeping an eye on who is in the belt with you (set up your overview to show all ships) when someone warps in use show info and see what they are flying and check the pilot profile. If you have any concerns warp out taking your cargo etc with you.

To help always align to when you reach the belt and stop your ship when it has turned. This will save you a few seconds when trouble arrives. Also keep your mining lasers going milk every drop of ore, they will auto switch off when you warp.

Keep mining buddy, get a feel for normal numbers in your system (local chat shows how many in system) and when is a good/bad time to mine but most of all keep watching your overview. If someone starts heading towards you bug out!.
Fedimart
Doomheim
#36 - 2011-09-25 17:21:36 UTC
Joshua Aivoras wrote:
Jason McCoy wrote:

If it were me stealing your ore, I dont do it for the pvp opportunity, .....
! Twisted


Since when is killing defenseless miners a "PvP Opportunity"? Surely the pew-pew'ers haven't hit this low yet...........right?



.....right?



Of course not! PVP'ers would never target a poor innocent miner!
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#37 - 2011-09-26 11:14:36 UTC
Fedimart wrote:
Joshua Aivoras wrote:
Jason McCoy wrote:

If it were me stealing your ore, I dont do it for the pvp opportunity, .....
! Twisted


Since when is killing defenseless miners a "PvP Opportunity"? Surely the pew-pew'ers haven't hit this low yet...........right?



.....right?



Of course not! PVP'ers would never target a poor innocent miner!


Can flipping has been and always will be a part of the game in Eve, its one of those little quirks in which a player exploits a weakness of the game (being able to jettison cans for less logistics and better productivity) and alternatively is reverse exploited by can flippers. The whole thing can easily be solved with proper logistics, which ultimatly is the best defense for every problem in Eve. If you take shortcuts, they come with risks. Its pretty much that simple.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Fedimart
Doomheim
#38 - 2011-09-26 17:06:51 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Fedimart wrote:
Joshua Aivoras wrote:
Jason McCoy wrote:

If it were me stealing your ore, I dont do it for the pvp opportunity, .....
! Twisted


Since when is killing defenseless miners a "PvP Opportunity"? Surely the pew-pew'ers haven't hit this low yet...........right?



.....right?



Of course not! PVP'ers would never target a poor innocent miner!


Can flipping has been and always will be a part of the game in Eve, its one of those little quirks in which a player exploits a weakness of the game (being able to jettison cans for less logistics and better productivity) and alternatively is reverse exploited by can flippers. The whole thing can easily be solved with proper logistics, which ultimatly is the best defense for every problem in Eve. If you take shortcuts, they come with risks. Its pretty much that simple.


You do realize I was being sarcastic? Cool
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2011-09-28 01:52:43 UTC
Alatine Rayl wrote:
I was mining over in Oisio in my retriever (can't fly or afford and Hulk because I'm new) earlier today, minding my own business, when a guy comes out of nowhere, jettisons a can, takes all of my ore from my can...



RECORD SCRATCH


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MooseMacD
Jagdpanzer Dynamics
#40 - 2011-09-28 03:20:09 UTC
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