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Will Minmitar-Amarr relations improve?
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Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-02-09 23:23:30 UTC
Will relations be improved with the alleged end to slavery coming along? After all much of why the Republic despises the Empire is because of Slavery. Of course the Empire can never be forgiven for what they've done, but surely taking off the shackles would improve relations, wouldn't it?

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Lyrka Bloodberry
Spybeaver
#2 - 2012-02-09 23:33:44 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Will relations be improved with the alleged end to slavery coming along? After all much of why the Republic despises the Empire is because of Slavery. Of course the Empire can never be forgiven for what they've done, but surely taking off the shackles would improve relations, wouldn't it?



I do not believe in this "end of slavery" before the last Slave is freed and savely arrives in the Republic.

Spybeaver
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-02-09 23:37:58 UTC
Lyrka Bloodberry wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Will relations be improved with the alleged end to slavery coming along? After all much of why the Republic despises the Empire is because of Slavery. Of course the Empire can never be forgiven for what they've done, but surely taking off the shackles would improve relations, wouldn't it?



I do not believe in this "end of slavery" before the last Slave is freed and savely arrives in the Republic.


I see, so for the general Minmatar populace freeing the slaves is not enough and the slaves must also be able to move to the Republic?

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#4 - 2012-02-09 23:49:28 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Will relations be improved with the alleged end to slavery coming along? After all much of why the Republic despises the Empire is because of Slavery. Of course the Empire can never be forgiven for what they've done, but surely taking off the shackles would improve relations, wouldn't it?


For a lot of us, it's a matter of 'too little, too late'. We're wary of the Empire as a whole, and we're frustrated by the empty promises and barebones reparations they've made over the last seven hundred years. The plain and simple truth is that after so long being lied to, ignored and dismissed, we no longer trust the Empire to honor its word.

if the Empire wants peace, we're open to pursuing that option, and we always have been. What we've been greeted with at every turn, though, is a lot of excuses, sidesteps, and token attempts at appeasement that, in the end, only really benefit the Empire. They've shown almost nothing in the way of a sincere desire to end the war and/or free our people.

it wouldn't improve relations that much -- too much time has passed, and the scars run too deep -- but it would be a starting point from which the peace process could begin.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Vikarion
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-02-09 23:59:49 UTC
If the slaves are freed, there will be no peace because they have not been returned to the Republic.

If they are returned to the Republic, there will be no peace because they have not been compensated.

If compensation is given, there will be no peace because it was not enough.

If all that can be given is given, there will be no peace because the Amarr must understand what it is like to be subjugated.

If the Amarr are subjugated, there will be no peace because they will resist.

There is no end to the demands that the Republic will press against the Amarr. The Amarr, therefore, should not free the slaves because it is what the Republic wants, but rather because the system of slavery is inefficient, and morally degrading to the Empire itself. In addition, the Republic, perhaps rightly, will always seek the destruction of the Empire, but their position can be weakened by such an action, and perhaps mitigated.
Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#6 - 2012-02-10 01:02:41 UTC
Fredfredbug4 , who alleges that the end of slavery is coming along? Link your sources.
Graelyn
Aeternus Command Academy
#7 - 2012-02-10 02:00:47 UTC
It will be difficult.

Many of us fought very hard to preserve the peace as it was before. On both sides.

Once the Matari violated their own treaties with a sneak attack, it is unlikely that the Empire would accept any such future farce of 'diplomacy' from the Republic until their ability to make such forms of war is crippled in some fashion.

Cardinal Graelyn

Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#8 - 2012-02-10 03:08:05 UTC
Graelyn wrote:
It will be difficult.

Many of us fought very hard to preserve the peace as it was before. On both sides.

Once the Matari violated their own treaties with a sneak attack, it is unlikely that the Empire would accept any such future farce of 'diplomacy' from the Republic until their ability to make such forms of war is crippled in some fashion.



Cardinal, it looks like we're viewing the same problem from opposite directions. The Empire has constantly denied that they did anything wrong -- in your eyes, the responsibility for being invaded, enslaved, and scattered to the solar wind is entirely ours.

We're willing to seek peace. We've been willing to seek peace for a long, long time. We're simply tired of the 'it's not our fault' rhetoric that your people seem to delight in presenting.

No, the Minmatar are not entirely without fault in this situation. We're decidedly hot-headed, some of us, and perhaps not the best example of 'stability in government'. We were forced into this position thanks to your peoples' absolute unwillingness to deal with us on an equal basis.

I agree that it was foolish to go back on our treaties -- not disputing that, nor will I ever dispute it -- but when our enemy can't be bothered to keep to its word, what reason do we have to do so?

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-02-10 05:39:23 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Will relations be improved with the alleged end to slavery coming along? After all much of why the Republic despises the Empire is because of Slavery. Of course the Empire can never be forgiven for what they've done, but surely taking off the shackles would improve relations, wouldn't it?



I believe relations will improve when the final IGS thread on this topic is decomissioned and sunk below the surface of a large ocean.

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-02-10 07:28:13 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:


I believe relations will improve when the final IGS thread on this topic is decomissioned and sunk below the surface of a large ocean.




Well if you look at it that way then you're just saying "never" without actually saying it. Even then, I'm sure the next point of debate and hostility would be exactly which ocean.
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#11 - 2012-02-10 09:43:27 UTC
I dont think this will ever happen.

Many including me, have a bitter hate against those who rob or even try to take away anyone's freedom.

Everyone should have an opitunity to enjoy their freedom, regardless who their friends are. A freedom where noone supress, or force you to do work for them.

Iv seen to much in the mine's to ever consider this being an option.

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#12 - 2012-02-10 11:28:00 UTC
Lyrka Bloodberry wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Will relations be improved with the alleged end to slavery coming along? After all much of why the Republic despises the Empire is because of Slavery. Of course the Empire can never be forgiven for what they've done, but surely taking off the shackles would improve relations, wouldn't it?



I do not believe in this "end of slavery" before the last Slave is freed and savely arrives in the Republic.


Typical Minmatar arrogance to assume that all slaves would want to go to the Republic, even the Ealurian ones.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Kazzzi
Heathen Legion
Iron Men of the Hood
#13 - 2012-02-10 12:32:44 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:

Typical Minmatar arrogance to assume that all slaves would want to go to the Republic, even the Ealurian ones.


For real yo.

Yes, yes I am agreeing with R.B.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-02-10 12:38:29 UTC
As long as the Empire exists in its current form, peace is literally impossible.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2012-02-10 13:51:30 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
As long as the Empire exists in its current form, peace is literally impossible.


I too would be happy to see a peaceful cluster overseen by a larger Empire.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2012-02-10 13:53:11 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:

I agree that it was foolish to go back on our treaties -- not disputing that, nor will I ever dispute it -- but when our enemy can't be bothered to keep to its word, what reason do we have to do so?


When did the Empire not keep to its word regarding the Minmatar?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#17 - 2012-02-10 14:07:31 UTC
The Minmatar Republic does not care about Amarrian enslavement of non-minmatar persons. They have gone so far as to leave non-minmatar slaves behind when assaulting installations that have a slave population, forcing non-minmatar persons back into the cells.

The Minmatar Republic does not care about Angel Cartel enslavement of Minmatar persons. The Republic does business with the Cartel on frequent occasions, and as can be seen with the Skarkon Incident a short while ago, this sort of thing is perfectly acceptable to the common citizen.

The Minmatar Republic is not even all that concerned about those ethnic minmatar that are enslaved in the Empire anyway. Arrivals of newly abducted persons into Republic refugee camps are much reduced from the initial high after the Elder Invasion.


Feel free to dismiss these truthful statements as Imperial propaganda, since I am True Amarr.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Jev North
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-02-10 14:36:45 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Feel free to dismiss these truthful statements as Imperial propaganda, since I am True Amarr.

Thank you. I suppose I will.

Valerie Valate wrote:
The Minmatar Republic does not care about Angel Cartel enslavement of Minmatar persons. The Republic does business with the Cartel on frequent occasions, and as can be seen with the Skarkon Incident a short while ago, this sort of thing is perfectly acceptable to the common citizen.

I must have completely imagined the vitriol and occasional autocannon shelling from Republic loyalists, then.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#19 - 2012-02-10 15:51:33 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:

I agree that it was foolish to go back on our treaties -- not disputing that, nor will I ever dispute it -- but when our enemy can't be bothered to keep to its word, what reason do we have to do so?


When did the Empire not keep to its word regarding the Minmatar?


For starters, there's the continual raiding into the Republic -- regardless of whether or not they're 'officially sanctioned', your promises to end raids like that are coming up woefully short.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2012-02-10 17:07:02 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:

I agree that it was foolish to go back on our treaties -- not disputing that, nor will I ever dispute it -- but when our enemy can't be bothered to keep to its word, what reason do we have to do so?


When did the Empire not keep to its word regarding the Minmatar?


For starters, there's the continual raiding into the Republic -- regardless of whether or not they're 'officially sanctioned', your promises to end raids like that are coming up woefully short.


I could equally point to the incessant raids into Amarrian territory by Republican forces.

Next!

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
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