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A Question About Pi (For All You Nerds Out There)
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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-02-09 21:48:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Since 2.1 is larger then 2
And since 2.00000000000000001 is larger then 2 (be it by a very small amount)


Is Pi
3.1415926535 8979323846 2643383279.…… (infinity)


A value that is both infinitely small and infinitely large in size (as in greater then 3 but never reaching 4), at the same time? And if that is true, does that not mean that the circumferences is by definition, infinitely larger then the diameter? Which should be impossible?


Please explain math nerds.
This concept, be it true or false, intrigues me. Big smile

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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#2 - 2012-02-09 22:56:24 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
both infinitely small and infinitely large in size...at the same time?


Please tell me you (or whoever thought this up) were high at the time.

Eternum Praetorian wrote:
And if that is true, does that not mean that the circumferences is by definition, infinitely larger then the diameter? Which should be impossible?


Please be trolling.

Eternum Praetorian wrote:
This concept, be it true or false, intrigues me. Big smile


Really? It makes my brain weep for the future of humanity.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#3 - 2012-02-09 23:05:32 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Really? It makes my brain weep for the future of humanity.


This. What's with all of the "get high and post on the EVE forums" threads lately?
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-02-09 23:10:19 UTC
Quote:

A value that is both infinitely small and infinitely large in size (as in greater then 3 but never reaching 4)


Actually I thought about this part and it kind of makes sense to me, which is why I high posted it Big smile




3.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
Is larger then 3, yes?

So 3.14 (infinite descending decimal points)
Is in fact a number infinity larger then 3, and yet paradoxically smaller then 3.2? Right?


Let's just start there, because I think this is a factual statement. Big smileBig smile

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Lyrka Bloodberry
Spybeaver
#5 - 2012-02-09 23:21:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrka Bloodberry
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Quote:

A value that is both infinitely small and infinitely large in size (as in greater then 3 but never reaching 4)


Actually I thought about this part and it kind of makes sense to me, which is why I high posted it Big smile




3.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
Is larger then 3, yes?

So 3.14 (infinite descending decimal points)
Is in fact a number infinity larger then 3, and yet paradoxically smaller then 3.2? Right?


Let's just start there, because I think this is a factual statement. Big smileBig smile


3.14 is not infinitely larger than 3, it is 0.14 larger than 3

and pi is pi-3 larger than 3. where is the problem?

Spybeaver
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#6 - 2012-02-09 23:24:33 UTC
PI is an irrational number and as such it is infinitely long, not infinitely large (or small).

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-02-09 23:30:33 UTC  |  Edited by: VKhaun Vex
I get what he's saying...

If you take 2, and add a .5, it's bigger.
2 < 2.5

So as Pi adds digits
3.1 < 3.14
3.14 < 3.141
The number is 'getting bigger'.



But your logical disconnect is assuming the universe revolves around your calculations. 2.55 oranges are not INFINITE ORANGES until you finish doing the math. All the digits are always there, right to infinity, even if you can't compute or comprehend them. Even if the 'exact' number of oranges is indeterminable.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-02-09 23:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
VKhaun Vex wrote:
I get what he's saying...

If you take 2, and add a .5, it's bigger.
2 < 2.5

So as Pi adds digits
3.1 < 3.14
3.14 < 3.141
The number is 'getting bigger'.



But your logical disconnect is assuming the universe revolves around your calculations. 2.55 oranges are not INFINITE ORANGES until you finish doing the math. All the digits are always there, right to infinity, even if you can't compute or comprehend them.



Ok this guy was the first to get it Blink Thank you!


I do understand the bit about there not being infinite oranges. But purely from a numerical standpoint, Pi by definition is infinitely larger then 3, and yet paradoxically, smaller then 3.2. I do not believe this statement to be untrue (in principle). Is it?


If it is not, then I will commence the second half of my stoned post Lol
But one puff at a time!

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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#9 - 2012-02-09 23:49:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Merin Ryskin
Oh FFS, just read this: LIMITS
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-02-10 00:03:28 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Oh FFS, just read this: LIMITS



Yes, and that does not change the nature of my question now does it?

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VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-02-10 00:03:43 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
But purely from a numerical standpoint, Pi by definition is infinitely larger then 3


Contradiction.

A number represents a point. If you're not measuring something, it has no meaning. There is no reason to call something 3, or 4, or 9, or Pi, unless something is before and after it. That's what a number is. Pi has a number. It is not infinitely larger or smaller than anything. It is exactly in it's place in the sequence of numbers. No larger, no smaller. Your inability to calculate it does not change this.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-02-10 00:06:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
VKhaun Vex wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
But purely from a numerical standpoint, Pi by definition is infinitely larger then 3


Contradiction.

A number represents a point. If you're not measuring something, it has no meaning. There is no reason to call something 3, or 4, or 9, or Pi, unless something is before and after it. That's what a number is. Pi has a number. It is not infinitely larger or smaller than anything. It is exactly in it's place in the sequence of numbers. No larger, no smaller. Your inability to calculate it does not change this.


If the assumption is points on a quadrant, ofc yes.
But a value is not automatically assumed to represent a point on a quadrant, is it? It can represent a magnitude, or a distance from a singular point of reference.

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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#13 - 2012-02-10 00:07:33 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Oh FFS, just read this: LIMITS



Yes, and that does not change the nature of my question now does it?


Then read it again until you realize how it explains that everything you've said here is ****ing stupid.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-02-10 00:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Merin Ryskin wrote:


Then read it again until you realize how it explains that everything you've said here is ****ing stupid.


And yet, 3.1 is bigger then 3.
You can't prove otherwise.


Can you? That is the basis of "everything I said there". So prove mathematically that 3. (infinite decimals), as a value, is not infinity larger then 3, but smaller then 3.2? I really would love to see you do it. Big smile

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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#15 - 2012-02-10 01:10:25 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Then read it again until you realize how it explains that everything you've said here is ****ing stupid.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-02-10 01:15:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Quote:
So prove mathematically that 3. (infinite decimals), as a value, is not infinity larger then 3, but smaller then 3.2? I really would love to see you do it

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stoicfaux
#17 - 2012-02-10 01:45:45 UTC
If you really want infinite and finite at the same time, try Gabriel's Horn. It's a mathematical construct that has infinite surface area but finite volume.

Which means you can fill the inside of the trumpet completely with paint (finite volume,) but since it has infinite surface area, you'll never have enough paint to coat the inside of the trumpet...

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-02-10 02:23:53 UTC
Quote:
Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.


Truly that is a paradox if there ever was one... so much so, that it does not even exist.

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Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-02-10 03:15:43 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Really? It makes my brain weep for the future of humanity.


This. What's with all of the "get high and post on the EVE forums" threads lately?



duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude....















































































wait, what?

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-02-10 03:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
It is like applying general relativity to numerical values, and an Infinitude of numbers means there are infinite theoretical steps higher from 3.1 to 3.2 in this instance. An equally puzzling question then becomes, how can you ever get to 3.2 if the steps there are infinite?





Because if 3.1 is your starting point, Pi becomes a value that is both infinitely larger and infinitely small at the same time. Infinitely "larger" is not the same as infinitely "large" (granted) being that you can never get to 3.2. I think I typed that wrong in my OP, but meh... whatever.

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