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Marauders: Underwhelming. Fix Ideas
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m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#61 - 2012-02-07 13:18:23 UTC
The extra missile/turret hardpoint would be utterly useless... No one would use the thing. Besides the web and tp bonuses, I really don't want to see any other ewar bonuses on marauders. Imo, it's kind of unfair that the vindi even has a web bonus. Vindi needs a damn nerf tbh. And I fly one XD Vindi needs a nerf and Kronos needs it's explosive hole fixed. In a bit, I think I'll go through and list off some more specific changes I think should be done to each marauder. Kinda padding BF3 atm to get assignment unlocks -_-
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#62 - 2012-02-07 16:27:51 UTC  |  Edited by: m3talc0re X
Kronos
* Increase Sensor Strength to 27 or 28 points.
* Increase Scan Resolution to 90-95 mm at the least.
* Increase Armor Explosive resistance to 30%
* Increase Drone Bandwidth to 125 and Drone Bay to 150m3
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level changed to Marauder Skill Bonus
Marauder Skill Bonus:
7.5% bonus to large hybrid weapon tracking per level changed to Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus

Paladin
* Increase Sensor Strength to 25 points.
* Increase Scan Resolution to 95-100 mm at the least.
* Increase Power Grid by 1,000. Not sure what the base would be, but after skills and all, the thing needs 1k more pg.
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level changed to Marauder Skill Bonus
Marauder Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to large energy turret damage per level changed to Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus

Vargur
* Increase Sensor Strength to 20 or 21 points.
* Increase Scan Resolution to 95-100 mm at the least.
* Increase Power Grid by 2,500. Again, not sure of the base.

Golem
* Increase Sensor Strength to 25 or 26 points.
* Increase Scan Resolution to 95-100 mm at the least.
Needs a ROF bonus for cruise launchers only, if possible.

All Marauders
Role Bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams changed to 150% bonus.
Role Bonus: 20% bonus to Salvager cycle time needs added.
Role Bonus: 100% bonus to [weapon] damage increased to 125%.

Edit: Added suggested role bonus for damage increase.
Amaroq Dricaldari
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2012-02-08 01:49:30 UTC
What just happened?

Did someone merge this thread with another one?

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m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#64 - 2012-02-08 03:45:26 UTC
No?
Amaroq Dricaldari
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2012-02-08 06:42:06 UTC
I asked that because I thought I saw your post in another 'Buff Marauders' thread.

Let's try to get back on topic, shall we?

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Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-02-08 07:29:11 UTC
I'm not sure if those suggestions are enough. I do believe that the salvaging bonus should just be dropped all together in favour of something else completely
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#67 - 2012-02-08 15:24:39 UTC
It's because I made a buff marauders thread before this one, but it didn't get many replies while this one has, go figure, lol.

The marauders need to keep their salvaging bonuses. That's part of the advantage of them. And LOTS of people do use them to salvage on the go and pick and choose through loot. As for the buffs I listed, they're enough. Go look at the ships and try to imagine those changes made to them and you'll see. No HP buffs because their resists will help compensate. The Kronos is the only one with a real hole in its tank. The resists aren't as high as frigs/cruisers (t2's), but the BS's have much more HP than they do and more slots to fit resists, so it's not as important. The changes I listed aren't game breaking, but they would be huge improvements to Marauders.
Hans Momaki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2012-02-08 18:46:45 UTC
Sorry, but your suggestion is not enough for the Golem, unless CCP makes torps viable again.

I would still suggest a dmg application / dmg range bonus on all marauders.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-02-08 19:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
The changes you have suggested aren't game breaking but I feel that they aren't really enough.

A lot of people in this thread have mentioned that Marauders simply don't have enough damage to compete with other options like pirate faction battleships. So in order to buff the damage on Marauders how about something like:

Increasing the 100% damage bonus to 125%
or
+1 weapon hardpoint

Either of these would increase the effective number of weapons from 8 to 10. I feel this would really improve Marauders.

Next, the tractor beam range bonus. I would really like to drop this in favour of something else. However, in order to keep long range tractor beams I think the introduction of medium and large sized tractor beams that had longer ranges would be a very welcome addition to the game. Being as these tractor beams would be useful on other ships.

The additional role bonus could then be something really useful to each Marauder. I think something along the lines of these bonuses could be considered:
Kronos: 75% reduction to MWD capacitor penalty
Golem: 50% reduction to shield boost capacitor usage
Vargur: 50% bonus to afterburner speed boost
Paladin: 50% reduction in Large energy turret cap usage or 50% optimal range bonus
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#70 - 2012-02-08 19:17:32 UTC
The damage bonus increase, maybe... another weapon hardpoint, no. Not unless they increased the total highslot count on maurauders to 8 to keep the 3 extra high's. The 125% damage bonus would work though.

Your role bonus ideas are just no. It looks like you're basing these "bonuses" off very specific fits. And I don't know why you keep pushing the medium and large tractor beams, they're fine as is imo. Without a bonus to them, for ships that should have them, they're a lot less useful. What you're wanting is T1 ships with tractors that can reach marauder ranges, which I disagree with.

As for my changes, they ARE enough. Everyone needs to understand that these ships don't need to be made OP. Quit trying to make them that way. They just need to be brought in line with other ships and ungimped. Besides the Golem using Cruise missiles, their damage output is pretty good imo. Paladin needs its damage bonus put on battleship skill rather than marauder skill. It could probably use a tracking bonus, too. I don't want paper dps added to these ships. I want applicable damage modifiers. Tracking bonuses (kronos and vargur have 'em, why not paladin?), webs, tp, MAYBE a range bonus. A proper fit takes care of most issues. The problem is in plenty of cases, we've got to fit **** on our marauders just to fix some flaw to get it to normal levels. Fitting the same mod on another ship makes it specialized to that effect. CCP are not going to make 1200dps marauders the norm. Would be awesome, sure, but it's not gonna happen. If they'd bring them all up to 1000dps ships, that'd be nice. The faction ships can do it, so should the marauders.
Amaroq Dricaldari
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2012-02-08 23:26:29 UTC
*starts clapping*

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Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-02-09 06:49:20 UTC
at who?
Hans Momaki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-02-09 07:48:45 UTC
m3talc0re X wrote:
The damage bonus increase, maybe... another weapon hardpoint, no. Not unless they increased the total highslot count on maurauders to 8 to keep the 3 extra high's. The 125% damage bonus would work though.

Your role bonus ideas are just no. It looks like you're basing these "bonuses" off very specific fits. And I don't know why you keep pushing the medium and large tractor beams, they're fine as is imo. Without a bonus to them, for ships that should have them, they're a lot less useful. What you're wanting is T1 ships with tractors that can reach marauder ranges, which I disagree with.

As for my changes, they ARE enough. Everyone needs to understand that these ships don't need to be made OP. Quit trying to make them that way. They just need to be brought in line with other ships and ungimped. Besides the Golem using Cruise missiles, their damage output is pretty good imo. Paladin needs its damage bonus put on battleship skill rather than marauder skill. It could probably use a tracking bonus, too. I don't want paper dps added to these ships. I want applicable damage modifiers. Tracking bonuses (kronos and vargur have 'em, why not paladin?), webs, tp, MAYBE a range bonus. A proper fit takes care of most issues. The problem is in plenty of cases, we've got to fit **** on our marauders just to fix some flaw to get it to normal levels. Fitting the same mod on another ship makes it specialized to that effect. CCP are not going to make 1200dps marauders the norm. Would be awesome, sure, but it's not gonna happen. If they'd bring them all up to 1000dps ships, that'd be nice. The faction ships can do it, so should the marauders.


I agree. Marauders don't have to be OP, but they should be better then any other subcap for Missions. This is not the case atm. Especially the golem (sorry, I don't get tired of mentioning this point). I don't need sensor strenght (IDC really, fit a ECCM for guristas ffs), but I need dmg application. With the only viable fit on a Golem, (Torps!) you can't hit anything besides BS's. And you need TP's to even hit them. That's just flawed. Golem is the "mew of the marauders", just because you need those TP's, cause Rigors and skills are not working, and because theres no lowslot module which has a more then minor impact on dmg application.

This makes the Golem pretty much useless (unless you want to spend a bil on a ship which is only useful on 5 missions in total). So either unnerf torps (and make them a viable weapon atleast), or give the golem a huge buff to dmg application, and get rid of those "you need those 3 TP's to hit a battleship, hahahahaha!" - nonsense.

I would buy a marauder which does 1000 dps ingame almost instantly. But the Golem is so far off here, that I have to laugh everytime I see someone flying it. This fact should make dev's cry.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-02-09 08:36:11 UTC
I have a Torp Golem and I don't really have any problem with damage application on anything other than fast cruisers and frigate but my drones tend to deal with those easily. 
I volley npc battle cruisers and three shot npc battleships. My range is a little painful though and my ship is rediculously expensive (2 bill). On the whole though I find the tractor beam bonus the most useless thing on the ship, the second most useless is the sensor strength. It is also a little difficult to fit but I manage.

With reference to those bonuses I've suggested. They aren't for specific fits it's just I feel that they would benefit those hulls the most. 
A blaster fit Kronos is very good but the MWD cap penalty really hurts. 
The Paladin could use a bonus to optimal which would help a great deal as its power grid is more suited to pulse fits over beams. Or a bonus to laser cap use would be a massive benefit. 
The Golem would find a cap bonus to shield boosting immensely valuable. 
And the only thing I could see being useful on a Vargur would be a fast AB fit as it makes the most use of the ships abilities. 

I'm open to other suggestions as this is a discussion. 
Limerance Zet-Giry
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2012-02-09 09:51:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Limerance Zet-Giry
I'd vote for giving marauders bonus for salvage _amount_. It is most matching to their "roleplay". Say, marauder gets 20% more of salvage components per Marauder skill level, so in perfect, it gets twice more salvage components from the single wreck, than any other ship.

This will not intersect with Noctis niche, and at the same time, will make marauders really meaningful. Also, it will cease inflation in the economics a bit (more goods with the same ISK amount).
Another possible bonus is to chance of salvagning success. But it a bit less interesting.
Could you place this suggestion to the first post?

P.S. About your bonuses - they are also good, but they are mmm.... Common. Thus - less interesting in terms of roleplay and ships differentiation.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2012-02-09 09:58:22 UTC
Limerance Zet-Giry wrote:
I'd vote for giving marauders bonus for salvage _amount_. It is most matching to their "roleplay". Say, marauder gets 20% more of salvage components per Marauder skill level, so in perfect, it gets twice more salvage components from the single wreck, than any other ship.

This will not intersect with Noctis niche, and at the same time, will make marauders really meaningful. Also, it will cease inflation in the economics a bit (more goods with the same ISK amount).
Could you place this suggestion to the first post?

P.S. About your bonuses - they are also good, but they are mmm.... Common. Thus - less interesting in terms of roleplay and ships differentiation.


Problem here is that people with lots of isk will use the marauder as a pure salvage ship as they would get double the salvage from a mission causing all sorts of other issues. 
Limerance Zet-Giry
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2012-02-09 10:03:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Limerance Zet-Giry
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Problem here is that people with lots of isk will use the marauder as a pure salvage ship as they would get double the salvage from a mission causing all sorts of other issues. 

And four times slower than with Noctis? I doubt it. Those who have lots of isk, need to salvage hundreds of wrecks per hour. Most often - in WH or null space. Fat, slow, vulnerable and expensive marauders will be bad for them.

Also, if you will give to marauder one of your bonus - this will still result just in more ISK per hour. No difference - just less interesting bonuses.
Limerance Zet-Giry
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2012-02-09 10:07:12 UTC
P.S. Also, more salvage doesn't mean that rich people will get more ISK. It will mean that salvage components will be cheaper. This means that rigs will be cheaper. Which looks good to me. Less inflation.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-02-09 12:20:21 UTC
7 high slots on a Marauder remember. So thats 3/4 tractors and 3/4 salvagers.
Double salvage bonus + tractor beam bonus would mean the ship becomes a salvager which is actually better than a Noctis as its volume of salvage is double.
Amaroq Dricaldari
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2012-02-09 19:27:40 UTC
Limerance Zet-Giry wrote:
P.S. Also, more salvage doesn't mean that rich people will get more ISK. It will mean that salvage components will be cheaper. This means that rigs will be cheaper. Which looks good to me. Less inflation.

Inflation is caused by extra currency getting pumped into the economy. It is completely unrelated from supply and demand.

As more people need more things, demand increases. As more ISK goes into circulation, inflation increases, as more stuff becomes available, supply increases.

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