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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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'Backdating' Lapsed skill training time.
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hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#81 - 2012-02-08 23:18:03 UTC  |  Edited by: hmskrecik
Mag's:
Nobody is completely removing consequences. There still are, just some of them of not your favorite sort. I.e. person wanting to catch up upon reactivation would have to pay extra. Like it or not, be it exploitable or not, it IS a consequence of letting subscription to run out.

Jasp3r:
Another reason why it's bad idea. Well, maybe not bad but not going to be allowed. This period of supertraining is functionally equal to six months grace period after account deactivation when you cannot play but still can train skills.
Jasp3r
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-02-08 23:33:22 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
[quote=Jasp3r]I could amass batch of such implants allowing me to train at superspeed for many years. Smells a bit fishy to me.


They could just apply it to your account, not have it as an in-game item at all.

Mags, people leaving the game don't care about consequences, they just want to stop paying for a game they're bored of. Although when they're thinking of coming back, this might be the icing on the cake... the consequence will be having to pay a bulk amount.
Jasp3r
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-02-08 23:35:09 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
Well, maybe not bad but not going to be allowed. This period of supertraining is functionally equal to six months grace period after account deactivation when you cannot play but still can train skills.


Not sure what you mean here, can you expand?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#84 - 2012-02-08 23:57:39 UTC
@ hmskrecik: It's a removal of the consequence of leaving and losing all that SP, when your account is not active. Plus it introduces pay to gain.

@ Jasp3r: If players don't care about consequences, then why are we having this discussion and why should we give them this? Either keep your account active, or lose SP. It really is that simple, whether you care about consequences or not.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#85 - 2012-02-09 08:51:16 UTC
Jasp3r wrote:
They could just apply it to your account, not have it as an in-game item at all.

Yeah, I guess if it was to be implemented that would be the only way.

Jasp3r wrote:
Not sure what you mean here, can you expand?

For simplification assume 20m SP trained in a year, character created and immediately deactivatedwith 0 SP, reactiation after a year.

Your proposal:
- 6 months of supertraining: 20m (10m in half a year, twice speed)
- half year after reactivation player has 20m SP

Grace period:
- 6 months trainig after deactivation: 10m
- reactiation, 6 months of normal training: 10m
- half year after reactivation player has 20m SP

Tweaking numbers won't help. Any kind of supertraining will amount to some extra training time after subscription expires.

Mag's wrote:
It's a removal of the consequence of leaving and losing all that SP, when your account is not active. Plus it introduces pay to gain.

Oh, well, I've been misled then. From all your earlier posts in this thread I got impression you're bellowing "every action shall have consequences". Here is no different. There still are consequences, whether you use this term or not.

Or if you meant this specific consequence, training time lost then yes, removal or rather limiting this consequence is all this whole discussion is about.
Limerance Zet-Giry
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2012-02-09 09:42:31 UTC
Amy Amarr wrote:

...

Completely unacceptable. Eve will be flooded by characters with 150+ millions of SP. Everybody will remember that he has some temporary required/wrong started etc account, and pay $300-$400 to instantly get his own perfect miner or perfect logist say.
Eve will be flooded by such "perfect-skilled" alts. This will just kill the game.
Limerance Zet-Giry
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2012-02-09 09:45:00 UTC
P.S. If you had no finances to pay for your account in past, or you decided that you will stop playing forever, and now you want turn back - it's you problems.
If you didn't study in the school, you cannot get all of that knowledge instantly when you will be 30 years old. Forget it.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#88 - 2012-02-09 10:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
hmskrecik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
It's a removal of the consequence of leaving and losing all that SP, when your account is not active. Plus it introduces pay to gain.

Oh, well, I've been misled then. From all your earlier posts in this thread I got impression you're bellowing "every action shall have consequences". Here is no different. There still are consequences, whether you use this term or not.
What? I've been consistent throughout this thread, misled how exactly?

hmskrecik wrote:
Or if you meant this specific consequence, training time lost then yes, removal or rather limiting this consequence is all this whole discussion is about.
I know, I have been reading and replying to the new tangent of this discussion. I disagree with it as much as the last, as this new idea gives the option of buying faster training. In other words, pay to gain.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#89 - 2012-02-09 10:21:29 UTC
Mag's wrote:
What? I've been consistent throughout this thread, misled how exactly?

Yes, you were consistent. But not clear [enough to me] whether you meant consequences in general or this particular one. As I said, in general consequences still are, just slightly different.

Mag's wrote:
I disagree with it as much as the last, as this new idea gives the option of buying faster training. In other words, pay to gain.

I agree that the idea is wrong. I believe I have shown it from in-game POV.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#90 - 2012-02-09 10:32:48 UTC
Limerance Zet-Giry wrote:
If you didn't study in the school, you cannot get all of that knowledge instantly when you will be 30 years old. Forget it.

Some studies have shown that older folks can learn faster and better than young ones. What they lack in mental performance they tend to make up with experience and motivation.

Bottom line: I'd not draw too many parallels between game mechanics and RL. The game is the game and you don't expect chess bishop to conduct field mass, do you?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#91 - 2012-02-09 10:41:25 UTC
Fair enough.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jasp3r
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-02-09 19:36:17 UTC
Limerance Zet-Giry wrote:

Completely unacceptable. Eve will be flooded by characters with 150+ millions of SP. Everybody will remember that he has some temporary required/wrong started etc account, and pay $300-$400 to instantly get his own perfect miner or perfect logist say.
Eve will be flooded by such "perfect-skilled" alts. This will just kill the game.


Read the full thread, all of the arguments above have been resolved. It's maxed at 6 months and certainly not instant.

hmskrecik wrote:

Your proposal:
- 6 months of supertraining: 20m (10m in half a year, twice speed)
- half year after reactivation player has 20m SP


Yes, they will get 20m skill in 6 months.. the normal 10m and 10m from the training time modifier (capped at 6 months). However, they will already be 20m skill behind due to the year timeout. So if they had of stayed, they would now be at 30m skill points (1 1/2 years).
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#93 - 2012-02-09 23:11:00 UTC
Jasp3r wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:

Your proposal:
- 6 months of supertraining: 20m (10m in half a year, twice speed)
- half year after reactivation player has 20m SP


Yes, they will get 20m skill in 6 months.. the normal 10m and 10m from the training time modifier (capped at 6 months). However, they will already be 20m skill behind due to the year timeout. So if they had of stayed, they would now be at 30m skill points (1 1/2 years).

This was my thinking too: compared to same age characters they would still have lower amount SP so it looks like everybody's happy. But not so. Take third person:

(say, our prodigal son created account exactly at the beginning of 2010, reactivated exactly at the beginning of 2011, thus supertraining finished by the end of June 2011)

- account created at the beginning of July 2010 and active since then
- at the end of June 2011 he has 20m SP, incidentally the same as our dude.

Now what would you say to this guy if he came complaining to you that it's not fair he had to freeze his balls in space for whole the year to get where he is now while that other guy got the same in six months?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#94 - 2012-02-10 08:30:34 UTC
Jasp3r wrote:
Limerance Zet-Giry wrote:

Completely unacceptable. Eve will be flooded by characters with 150+ millions of SP. Everybody will remember that he has some temporary required/wrong started etc account, and pay $300-$400 to instantly get his own perfect miner or perfect logist say.
Eve will be flooded by such "perfect-skilled" alts. This will just kill the game.


Read the full thread, all of the arguments above have been resolved. It's maxed at 6 months and certainly not instant.
Resolved for you maybe, but I and others still disagree with any change.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.