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Module stacking and missile damage questions
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Tycho Enderas
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#1 - 2012-02-07 20:42:48 UTC
First module stacking. Forgetting stacking penalties for a second if I have a "stat" which is at 100 and I add to modules giving +5% is the result:
1. 100 + 10% = 110
or
2. 100 + 5% = 105 + 5% = 110.25
?

Also, this is more of a mathy thing (not exactly sure which forum that would be) but messing around with the missile damage formula I noticed some things.

Formula: damage = MIN(1, S/E, (S/E*Ve/V)^(logdrf/log5.5))

1. When the S/E term is higher than Ve/V then the last part of the formula seem to always be the minimum value (which makes sense)
2. When the Ve/V and S/E terms are equal the last part will still be the minimum (kind of irrelevant).
3. When Ve/V is higher than S/E it varies. It is not until Ve/V is significantly higher than S/E that S/E becomes the minimum value in this equation.

My questions are
1. Is this, to anyones knowledge, correct?
2. Is there logic to this discrepancy?
3. If it is correct then could this possibly explain why the skill/rigs boosting explosion velcoity affects all missiles whereas skill/rigs boosting radius only affects guided (so basically making it easier to compensate for velocity differences than radius differences)?
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#2 - 2012-02-08 15:51:01 UTC
To the first part, it would be 110%. E.I., a sleipnir has a "7.5% bonus to Shield Booster effectiveness per level" for the battlecruiser skill. So, with battlecruiser V, you would have your sb making effectively 137.5% of its base boost amount. I honestly got lost on the second part, never paid attention in math class tbh.

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"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

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Ravenesa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-02-08 21:18:25 UTC
Tycho Enderas wrote:

Formula: damage = MIN(1, S/E, (S/E*Ve/V)^(logdrf/log5.5))


Ummm... I just shoot them again if they are not dead?
stoicfaux
#4 - 2012-02-08 21:50:15 UTC
Tycho Enderas wrote:
First module stacking. Forgetting stacking penalties for a second if I have a "stat" which is at 100 and I add to modules giving +5% is the result:
1. 100 + 10% = 110
or
2. 100 + 5% = 105 + 5% = 110.25
?

It's #2, multiplicative: 1.05 * 1.05 = 1.1025 Also, eve dev wiki: http://wiki.eve-id.net/Stacking


Quote:
Also, this is more of a mathy thing (not exactly sure which forum that would be) but messing around with the missile damage formula I noticed some things.

Formula: damage = MIN(1, S/E, (S/E*Ve/V)^(logdrf/log5.5))

You are missing a MIN in your formula: http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=901280
Damage = Base_Damage * MIN(MIN(sig/Er,1) , (Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(log(drf) / log(5.5)) )
/nitpick

Personally, I break them into:
* MF1: MIN(sig/Er,1) and
* MF2: (Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(log(drf) / log(5.5))
then take the lowest of MF1 and MF2.


Quote:
1. When the S/E term is higher than Ve/V then the last part of the formula seem to always be the minimum value (which makes sense)
2. When the Ve/V and S/E terms are equal the last part will still be the minimum (kind of irrelevant).
3. When Ve/V is higher than S/E it varies. It is not until Ve/V is significantly higher than S/E that S/E becomes the minimum value in this equation.

My questions are
1. Is this, to anyones knowledge, correct?
2. Is there logic to this discrepancy?
3. If it is correct then could this possibly explain why the skill/rigs boosting explosion velcoity affects all missiles whereas skill/rigs boosting radius only affects guided (so basically making it easier to compensate for velocity differences than radius differences)?

1. Yes, if you mean that MF2 tends to be the lower value and thus the more limiting on applied damage.
2. Why would it be a discrepancy? Also, (S/E) is capped in MF1 to 100%. (S/E) is not capped in MF2. So if (S/E) = 136%, then that extra 36% improves MF2.
3. Just because. CCP has decided that Rigor rigs only affect guided missiles (standard, heavy, cruise.) Unguided missiles are rockets, HAMs, and Torps. Flare rigs (explosion velocity) affect both guided and unguided missiles because CCP says so.

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Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#5 - 2012-02-08 23:50:29 UTC
There is an oddity involving different strenghts of module bonuses penalized in different fashion. If you have 4 gyrostabilizers and 1 burst aerator II rig, the rig is, for some reason, much less stacking penalized than a t1 version would be. If you have 3 t1 gyrostabilizers and a t2 one, the t2 one is less stacking penalized.

I've been wondering how this works. Anyone got an explanation? Is it only the higher rank being stacking penalized at same % than the rest, which ends up penalizing the stronger mod less in proportion?
stoicfaux
#6 - 2012-02-09 01:33:41 UTC
Stetson Eagle wrote:
There is an oddity involving different strenghts of module bonuses penalized in different fashion. If you have 4 gyrostabilizers and 1 burst aerator II rig, the rig is, for some reason, much less stacking penalized than a t1 version would be. If you have 3 t1 gyrostabilizers and a t2 one, the t2 one is less stacking penalized.

I've been wondering how this works. Anyone got an explanation? Is it only the higher rank being stacking penalized at same % than the rest, which ends up penalizing the stronger mod less in proportion?

Bonuses are sorted from best to worst before stacking penalties are applied.

Example: A RF Gyro has a -10.5% rof bonus. A T2 Burst Aerator has a -15% rof bonus. A T1 Burst Aerator has a -10% rof bonus.

The T2 Rig has the best bonus and is the "First" module for stacking purposes (so it's not penalized.) The RF Gyro has the 2nd best bonus and is thus the "Second" module for stacking purposes. The T1 gets hit as being the Third module for stacking purposes.

http://wiki.eve-id.net/Stacking

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Mona X
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-02-09 07:32:09 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:
To the first part, it would be 110%. E.I., a sleipnir has a "7.5% bonus to Shield Booster effectiveness per level" for the battlecruiser skill. So, with battlecruiser V, you would have your sb making effectively 137.5% of its base boost amount. I honestly got lost on the second part, never paid attention in math class tbh.


Module stacking, not skill stacking.

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elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#8 - 2012-02-11 02:51:55 UTC
And the answer is:

The missile dps shown in you fitting screen is only accurate IF your target is a station or an object > your ship that is not moving at all.
For any other targets the following gets more accurate:
missile dps shown in your fitting screen minus 80% for pve
and minus 70% fpr pvp (well it gets somewhat better at closer range since the missile travelling time approaches zero - in pvp)

There you go!

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