Ships & Modules

So, I've been saving for a mach and now got enough money for one (and then some...want to make sure I can buy another if I lose it before I do) and decided to try it out on the sisi...

and found it was extremely underwhelming compared to my maelstrom. What's wrong?

Basically, my mael is T2 fit

8 T2 800 ACs
Ambit extension rigs (I think, with the extra falloff)
3 Gyros
2 TE

All T2. It's around 65km falloff with barrage if I remember.

Last Sepentis extrav took me 12 minutes.

The mael was similar fit

I had 4 gyros + 2 tracking TE's, sadly, I needed to put a CPU mod in, but won't need to on live.

I didn't use a MWD but just standard 100MN T2 AB.

Obviously know how to fly it, been flying my maelstrom long enough. I was keeping as max possible range as I could while staying in falloff, keeping angular alright (Was PvE anyway, not hard) and doing the usual stuff.

However, I hit far less (Tried with Hail/Barrage on Angels & Sep (usually just stick with barrage for missions because I'm lazy, but obviously tried correct resist ammo for testing) and Faction Phased Plasma against Sep.

I admit one thing though, The first L4 I tried (blockade) was bugged, nothing would spawn, so I tried a L3...was against amarr, so used faction EMP and barrage (Latter only to test) and obviously being a L3 it wouldn't be as effective, but it was still incredibly underwhelming.

Then I went and grabbed a few other L4s..kept getting damped in one, which was frustrating since I just wanted to test, and I didnt put a SB on (should I?) and then the other, fairly straight forward mission...but still underwhelming!

I also found the tracking on the mach to be far worse. Sure, drones for frigates I know I know...except, with my mael, I can usually pop any frigate in 1 shot if their over 12km...I was pretty much missing them every single time in the mach even at 30-40km away yes, my Angular was fine...now for the battleships, I think my hardest hit was around 1100, the majority were all around 800. I hit between 1500-2500 on my mael (1600-1800 is average) against same faction ships.

Now, the thing is, I've trained a lot of gunnery the past month (looked like my last skill trained was 4th jan on sisi), but prior to this, I've always done far more damage than what I saw on the sisi, even 2-3 months ago. I notice that my RoF was around 3.64 on the mach, and it's actually 3.6 on my mael now, so granted, some skills obviously play a big part, and I think IIRC the machs falloff was around 84km (I think) but I expected more. My Gallente BS is only 3 I think, obviously need to train that up. My min BS is 4.

Any advice? Not too concerned about the tank or anything, just the damage, and my med slots are pretty much that (Except, I did use a cap booster for the mach and a X-Large shield, my understanding it should be a faction med shield booster, but anyway, not important for the moment.

So, my main question is, even with a similar fit, properly flying why was it doing a less damage than my mael, would it seriously be down to a months skills, which I refuse to believe, as I said, last month I was doing more in my mael anyway. Most of my gunnery skills are 5, some 4 but getting to 5.

This is only my opinion - however, I stuck with my Mael for running L4 missions because of the price tag. The Mach does have some advantages, but for the price, I stick with a Mael. There are a few reasons behind this:

1. The Mael costs around 1/5 to 1/4 as much to fit properly, and often, I'll keep one in each station that I run missions in (Lazy? yes. Saves time going in a shuttle? yes)
2. If/when you do get ganked someday, it's easy to recover from
3. The bonus on the Mach doesn't do it for me. The Mael, with my skills, is just about as effective as the Mach.
4. When I get drunk and play, I don't mind so much learning that I shot a can in hisec and got my Mael destroyed for absolutely no reason other than being drunk. If I lost a Mach like that I'd cry.

If you want a Mach, go for it. It's a cool looking ship, but for just running L4 missions, I don't think it's worth it, personally.

I didn't say I was, I said that I was always within the fall off.

What's the point in getting right up close to them but still in falloff (since AC optimal is pretty bad...what, 3k?) where they can hit you rather than staying at a range where they can't hit you, yet still in falloff

I got the understanding that if you're at 40km fall off, you're doing to do as much damage as if you're in 15km falloff, or is that wrong?

Anyway..regardless of the fact, ignore that and try to explain why the mael is doign more damage than the mach when BOTH are in falloff. That's my concern, not kiting, tanking or anything else, as I stated.

Hmm, I wonder why it's hard to grasp the question of not what I should be doing, but why with the same circumstances has the mael been doing more damage. I mean seriously. Even if it's not flown to optimal advantage, utlizing both ships in the same away, I.E...staying in the falloff, same ammo, same faction rats compared with each other, the mael is doing more, when it's my understanding, the mach should be.

I don't know what you were doing wrong with that Mach, but I guarantee it was something. Post a fit?

Your understanding of falloff is also wrong, but someone else just (sort of) explained that to you: the further you are into falloff you are, the lower your hit quality and the fewer hits you get due to range.

Well not really sorry :p Sure, I didn't think it matter so long as you were in falloff, but obviously it does with the distance, but like, 4th time now? That's not the point. It still doesn't make any difference to the question I asked, it's a different topic alltogether

Unless ofc, everyone here is saying the mach will only out dps the mael at optimal and not say, at the exact same distance as each other in fall off...but that's not the case now is it, it should out dps the mael in equivalent ranges, so, why, with like I've stated many times now, didn't it...despite the angular Vel being good, despite the right ammo (Or, even better..SAME ammo, against SAME targets, on SAME mission) while using a very similar fit (Infact, exact same fit in regards to DPS mods. As I said, I missed one TE due to the CPU mod on the sisi (won't have that problem on live) but...like I said, the same amount as my mael...infact, the mach even had one extra gyro iirc.

Fit above is a good one, but primary tactic should be "only orbit if needed for tank, otherwise approach to 20km and keep transversal low to apply best damage".

The difference between Mach and Mael starts to kick in using fusion (or other short range) ammo; barrage is costly and low dps. When you use fusion the falloff difference shows in much higher damage applied at 40km from Mach than Mael.

Well, that's pretty much the fit I had, except T2 not faction (Was on sisi, don't know if you can find faction?) and I used the falloff rigs. Also a drone control in the high, I don't care much for tractors since I rarely salvage now (just going to next mission seems faster) but when I do I have a noctis ofc. As for the mission items, I usually leave that to the last ship and work my way to it and just loot when its popped.



Yeah, again, I used the faction Phased Plasma (was serps) depending on the mission I'll swap out but I don't mind spending on barrage/hail or faction just for missions, which ever gets them done faster ;p. I usually stick with barragesince it's easier to just pop from afar and their dead by the time I got to them. Unless its a close spawning mission, then it's hail on angels and PP on seps. Shouldn't have that problem with a mach though since I can get there faster but still doesn't solve my problem as to why it was so underwhelming in comparrison. I can only put it down to the skills being out dated on sisi, but thats only a month :S

All missions are a breeze in my mael anyway, the only one I don't like is worlds collide, not because its hard but the travel time between gates and how many freaking damps there are....something I'd hope the mach would solve.

I did mention that I usually pulse the AB on and off to keep range and limit initial DPS then just manually approach the targets with some transverse while I hose them down but I thought the above tactic may be easier for a less experienced Mach pilot to deal with for their first few runs out.

I also tend to agro the furthest group away (limit of locking range) so by the time I have smashed the closest spawn I am close enough to start applying decent dps on the "distant" group.

Blockade is a pain in the ass but I tend to use a HAM Tengu for that.

I wasnt orbiting...I'm lazy when it's easy.

Usually in my mael, I lock 6 targets, press f1 with one hand and pick my nose with the other while looking at the browser, when I hear a pop, i press f1 again and repeat.

Another reason I want a mach, more action, but no, no orbiting,...