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Nightmare lvl 4 fit
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Wakakino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-09-19 09:26:16 UTC
Hello fellow capsuleers.

My favourite ship is the Nightmare, and even though i know it is not the best ship for missions i want to fly it. I have been looking all over for fits, but i cannot find a fit that everybody seems to like. I want replies from people who is flying / have flown it for missions, and who is capable of giving me some useful feedback.

Thanks.
Aamrr
#2 - 2011-09-19 09:50:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Aamrr
That's because you're not going to find a fit that everyone likes. You get difference preferences, different perspectives on how you should go about getting or conserving capacitor, etc. That said, here's my take...

T2 Tachyons give about a 3-5% damage increase over their faction counterparts. That's a significant increase, on par with the 4th heat sink. However, they also consume 33% more capacitor. The elutriation rigs cut that figure dramatically, allowing you to run your guns more or less constantly without burning through your supply of capacitor boosters. The capacitor booster allows you to run your shield booster when necessary (it usually won't be).

Against Sansha's Nation, this gets a 500 EHP/s tank -- but when you can project over 1k DPS to 60km, you don't really need it. More often than not, I'll drop the shield boost amplifier for a 100mn Afterburner -- which is why I've opted to use a medium capacitor booster rather than a large.

[Nightmare, TachBoost]

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam I
Auto Targeting System II

Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Imperial Navy Medium Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed

Tracking Enhancer II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Niko Takahashi
Yoshitomi Group
#3 - 2011-09-19 10:35:36 UTC
Nightmare is in my opinion the best dam ship money can buy for missions.

Bloods Sansha Drones and Serps even melt.

People sing praises about machariels and Vargurs They are good real good actually however they work in falloff so those pretty numbers tend to be much lower.

With nightmare it is OPTIMAL if you can track it [which with the 2 tracking comps and nice hefty tracking bonus is usually no problem] you actually apply that theoretical number to the rat.

I dont know about other folks but most of the mission I get have the rats 50km + at start so that is deep in falloff for the other ships.

If you want o be perfectionist Just get a Golem or Vargur for the missions that em therm damage is bad for and you have top of the line for all.
Wakakino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-09-19 10:45:26 UTC
Thank you guys. But if i could narrow it down, how bout a fit with no cap boosting?
Aamrr
#5 - 2011-09-19 10:58:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Aamrr
You're almost certainly not going to want to do that. The Nightmare may be an Amarrian ship, with the cavernous capacitor that entails...but it's also Caldari, with the crappy recharge time that goes along with that. The Nightmare's base capacitor recharge is rather abysmal, and not really enough to support the absurd cap drain that a shield-tanking laserboat entails.

Edit: And honesty, cap boosters are really the best option for anything battleship-sized. Your tanking requirements are most intense at the start of each wave, before you have time to whittle the DPS down. The cap booster gives you that extra burst of energy when you need it, then lets you coast on native recharge once the incoming DPS is down.
Wakakino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-09-19 10:59:26 UTC
Aamrr and why are you putting optimal range and trackin speed in your two computers. that gives the same as using no scripts except you loose fall-off, correct me if i'm wrong
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-09-19 11:02:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Arazel Chainfire
no EFT at the moment, and I have since moved my nightmares around, but this is how I ran mine (both solo and as a pair).

Highs
4x Tach 2's
2 spare highslots (I usually stuffed on a pair of tractor beams)

Mids
Large shield booster 2
4 hardener 2's
2 cap recharger 2's or tracking computer 2's, depending upon how comfortable you feel with it

Lows
3-4 heatsink 2's
0-2 cap power relays, cap flux coils, or tracking enhancers as you like

Rigs
3 CCC

Drones to taste

you have plenty of spare fitting left, and I did use this fit before with 4 heatsinks, 1 TE, and 2 tracking computers, and it did ok, though if you end up messing up triggers it can get a bit tricky. Just tailor it according to your skills and exactly how much cap life you want to have. You can also swap to faction tachs (as mentioned) to get significantly better cap life, and only loose out a little on dps. If you do end up going up against angels, I recommend swapping to heavy pulse laser 2's, as they will tend to hammer closerange npc mach's harder, while still punching through the few that hang out at a distance. Yes, its not as effective as switching on over to a mach/golem etc, but if you don't have the skills for other weapon types its still effective.

-Arazel

Edit: yes, you do loose out on some dps with a cap recharge based fit, but it does mean that you don't have to lug around tons of cap boosters. To be honest, I liked trading that little bit of dps for the lazyness factor (of course... if you have 2 you can do the cap transfer trick, which is always amusing to run with).
Aamrr
#8 - 2011-09-19 11:04:06 UTC
Wakakino wrote:
Aamrr and why are you putting optimal range and trackin speed in your two computers. that gives the same as using no scripts except you loose fall-off, correct me if i'm wrong


I'm afraid you are incorrect. The optimal range script doubles the falloff bonus of the tracking computer as well. You should get a 15% optimal bonus and 30% falloff from a scripted TC. And while two unscripted TCs are (very marginally) better than two mixed script TC's, that changes once you add another tracking module -- in this case, a tracking enhancer. The scripts let me lighten the stacking penalty chain.

Run the numbers and you'll see. You should pretty much always be scripting your TCs.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-09-19 11:06:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
the nightmare is the perfect ship for a cap booster setup:
- high damage/low tracking weapons which profit immensely from tracking mods
- DPS tanking, low and bursty incoming damage
- high range, making permatanking even less of an issue
- energy weapons, no cargo space wasted on ammo

the less slots you waste on tank, the more gank you can pack, which again results in less sustained incoming dps and less tank needed.


TLDR: flying a nightmare without cap booster is like flying an armor tanked drake.


edit: in contrast to other ships, T2 weapons are not mandatory on the nightmare. if your heavy energy turret skill is not at 5, you can replace the t2 guns for faction guns. it frees up some cap and you can spend learning time on other dps skills.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Aamrr
#10 - 2011-09-19 11:11:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Aamrr
Absolutely true. And since CCC's don't help the capacitor coming from your cap booster, your rigs are better spent on conserving capacitor than generating it. This means things like energy elutriation discharge, capacitor safeguard, or even just hardeners so you can run your shield booster less.

Edit: The neat part is that you don't even need a heavy capacitor booster. Medium is perfectly adequate and saves powergrid for things like those elutriation rigs or propulsion.
Wakakino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-09-19 11:11:28 UTC
Okay...so as it uses no ammo, i can fill the cargohold with 800's and it should be easy tanking anyway, because all the damage and tracking mods make me pwn, so the incoming damage will fall rather fast? :) anyway, you are saying a machariel is better, got any fits? :)
Aamrr
#12 - 2011-09-19 11:15:54 UTC
The Machariel is situationally better. The DPS is about 10% higher, but it loses that advantage quickly when falloff and reload time are considered. Where it pulls ahead is damage selection -- any time where EM isn't optimal, the Machariel (or even Vargur) can be attractive alternatives.

To be honest, the two ships are complementary. I'd get both and switch between them depending on circumstance.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#13 - 2011-09-19 11:17:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Wakakino wrote:
Okay...so as it uses no ammo, i can fill the cargohold with 800's and it should be easy tanking anyway, because all the damage and tracking mods make me pwn, so the incoming damage will fall rather fast? :) anyway, you are saying a machariel is better, got any fits? :)


pretty much the same fit, except you put 7 heavy AC on it instead of 4 tachs. with proper skills, your fallof should be way beyond 60km which means you deal almost full dmg at <45.

edit: no, i didn't say 8

I should buy an Ishtar.
Wakakino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-09-19 11:19:02 UTC
shield or armor tanked machariel u talking bout?
Aamrr
#15 - 2011-09-19 11:20:11 UTC
Where'd you get an 8-turret Machariel? I'll certainly pay you a pretty penny for it! Lol

That said, you should be able to get at least 60km of falloff from it. Three TE2's will get you 69.1km before implants are considered.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#16 - 2011-09-19 11:20:38 UTC
shield of course. you need the lows for 4x faction gyros and tracking enhancers so you can pewpew 1000+ dps :D

I should buy an Ishtar.
Wakakino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-09-19 11:22:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Wakakino
so Aamrr, could you, for the relatively nooby fitter I am, but decent skilled player, write down the fit, which I should pop on a Machariel like you did with the Nightmare.

Highs:


Mids:

Lows:

Rigs:

thanks ;)
Aamrr
#18 - 2011-09-19 11:40:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Aamrr
I'm not much of an expert on autocannons, but sure. Here's one I've got saved. Principle is more or less the same as with the Nightmare, except here you've got to balance your ammo and capacitor requirements. (It's not hard.)

Edit: And I'll certainly defer to anyone that's got more expertise in this area. In particular, this fitting is rather light on tracking bonuses. I'm told that's not an issue, but I've not tested it myself.

[Machariel, ShieldAB]

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
Small Tractor Beam I

Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Explosion Dampening Field II
Invulnerability Field II

Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
[Empty Rig slot]
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#19 - 2011-09-19 11:48:25 UTC
the burst aerator won't really do much with four gyros, you might as well throw on some more shield rigs, CCCs or even speed/agility rigs.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Aamrr
#20 - 2011-09-19 11:50:55 UTC
It actually helps more than the 4th gyro does. Though if I were to swap it for anything, it'd be more tracking (in the form of metastasis rigs).
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