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An investigation into the abuse of slaves and stuff
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Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#1 - 2012-02-07 18:27:12 UTC
Hi

I investigated abuse of slaves and stuff in the Empire.

In relation to planetary Holders, I found this:

Premise 1: Holders plot and scheme against one another. This is well known.

Premise 2: Abuse of slaves is a Thing that Holders use against rival Holders, to undermine their position. "Lady X beats her slaves, what a silly woman", and similar gossip at the church ice cream social. This is well known.

Premise 3: Abuse of slaves is a waste of resources. This is well known.

Therefore:

It is in the best interests of any given Holder to not abuse the slaves under their authority.
A Holder who abuses their slaves will hand their rival Holders a weapon to use against them, and will become isolated from the social circles, and their power and influence will decline.
A Holder who abuses their slaves will squander their family wealth, attracting the attention of the Interfering Older Relative, who will interfere, possibly poisoning them and replacing them with a more suitable family member.
A Holder who abuses their slaves will also attract the attention of their superiors, as it is detrimental to a superior Holder's prestige to have a junior Holder who is an embarrassment. This could go all the way to the relevant Heir Family.

Thus a Holder who abuses their slaves will be pressured not to, by their peers, their family, and their superiors.

The Imperial Authorities may also become involved, A slave uprising requiring Imperial Army intervention is a thing to be avoided, so the Ministry of Internal Order, amongst others, would intervene to prevent this.

Not to mention of course, the Scriptures, which also frown on this sort of thing.

So, logically, abuse of slaves by planetary holders is a rare occurrence, and will decline in future, as with the Empress's declaration about the End of Slavery approaching, the value of slaves goes up, which will then increase the pressure that the interfering relatives and gossiping peers can bring to bear on a deviant Holder.


Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#2 - 2012-02-07 19:36:24 UTC
... and stuff.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Khazarn Areth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-02-07 20:17:41 UTC
Your investigation lost credibility the moment you said "Stuff".

Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood

Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#4 - 2012-02-07 20:20:23 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
... and stuff.


Totally.

I was like, inspired to look into this, because of stuff, with people saying things about things, about how so many persons were apparently "abused" while slaves and stuff.

Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/
Rorin Cutter
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#5 - 2012-02-08 09:44:06 UTC
Louella Dougans wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
... and stuff.


Totally.

I was like, inspired to look into this, because of stuff, with people saying things about things, about how so many persons were apparently "abused" while slaves and stuff.



I am also slightly confused about this so called "and stuff"
Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#6 - 2012-02-08 18:03:04 UTC
Well, there's like, the stuff about things, when people say stuff like "I used to be a slave, my holder beat me twice a day, and it was uphill both ways" and so on.

So, I looked at stuff, and some things appeared.

Like:

Maybe, various Minmatar persons weren't really abused when they were slaves, but are told by various authority figures that they were, for like, political reasons and stuff.

Like, a dude that works a 12 hour shift, he gets told he was abused, but when he says "it was 4 days on, 4 days off shift pattern" he is told "hush, a 12 hour shift is abuse", because people have a vested interest in accusing people of abuse and stuff.

There is another possibility, which I will go into later.

Also, have a Solution to the Problem and stuff.

Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/
Khazarn Areth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-02-08 18:33:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Khazarn Areth
Louella Dougans wrote:
Well, there's like, the stuff about things, when people say stuff like "I used to be a slave, my holder beat me twice a day, and it was uphill both ways" and so on.

So, I looked at stuff, and some things appeared.

Like:

Maybe, various Minmatar persons weren't really abused when they were slaves, but are told by various authority figures that they were, for like, political reasons and stuff.

Like, a dude that works a 12 hour shift, he gets told he was abused, but when he says "it was 4 days on, 4 days off shift pattern" he is told "hush, a 12 hour shift is abuse", because people have a vested interest in accusing people of abuse and stuff.

There is another possibility, which I will go into later.

Also, have a Solution to the Problem and stuff.


This, ladies and gentlemen, is why substances like Mindflood and Crash are illegal.

Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood

Bob McGenericname
Bob's Boutique Tax Avoidance Corp
#8 - 2012-02-08 19:17:03 UTC
While I have never been in a position wherein I could own slaves, and thus the thought is a new one for me, surely the counterpoint to this is as follows: If you're getting a 40 hour work week out of your slaves, feeding them well and giving them facilities, you're working less of a profit than my hellfarm where slaves work 100 hour weeks fed on Carthum Brand Imitation Gruel (9 out of 10 orphans can't tell the difference!), are beaten in to mindnumbing submission and fully aware of the fact that I can and will just stop giving them Vitoc the moment I hear that they are grumbling.

Also, if my friends also treat their slaves like crap, there aren't that many social repercussions of treating our slaves like crap.

Bob: Hello, friend holder, in the bizarro world where I am a loyalist holder, how are you on this fine day that we find ourselves both in church here at this ice cream social which is apparently a thing in Amarr circles?
Other Holder: Fairly well. Say, have you heard that Louella Dougans actually treats her slaves well? What's the deal with that?
Bob: I know right? Surely she knows that a system of beatings and fear are the proper way to run a slave-based operation.
Other Holder: Let's be fair to the poor lass, she's not a Crusader as we are. We know the danger a Matari posesses.
Bob: Yes, I feel that your pithy dismissal of her justifies my position entirely. Alternatively, were we not Crusaders we could have thrown her concerns away by talking about the Elder Fleet and the dangers of an empowered Minmatar people, or just laughed at her attempting to humanise the sub-humans.
Other Holder: Impressive strawman paragraph Bob.
Bob: Not as impressive as this ice cream.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#9 - 2012-02-08 19:19:39 UTC
Bob McGenericname wrote:
Surely she knows that a system of beatings and fear are the proper way to run a slave-based operation.

Vitoxin.

Not all abuse is visible as cuts and bruises.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#10 - 2012-02-08 20:34:23 UTC
Saint Ageroth said happiness is not measured by what you hold in your hand, but in your heart.

Anyways.

Having shown that abuse amongst planetary Holders is logically very low, and that exaggeration by Minmatar authorities is significant, there is still a thing that I have not yet mentioned.

Non-planetary holders, including of course, the holders that are also space captains.

The semi-immortality of a capsuleer existence, means that the pressures from relatives are inconsequential, as the holder can outlast or otherwise thwart their schemes.
This is one of the social consequences that saint Articus warned about, leading to the creation of the doctrine of sacred flesh, so many centuries ago.

The mobility of space based infrastructure also means that abuses by holders may escape the eye of the interfering relative, and the relevant authorities.
The solution there is vigilance.

And as mentioned before, these non-planetary holders are often completely engrossed in their schemes, to make money, such that they could make a play for some real land, instead of transient space properties, and thus move up in society. This obsession with material wealth, leading to the perpetration of abuses, is of course the thing that the saint Ageroth warned against.

So, we have arrived at the only logical and reasonable conclusion.

Abuse of slaves is higher in space due to lack of righteousness and vigilance amongst Amarr space residents, and not as is commonly thought, planetary holders.

And the solution is Vigilance and Righteousness, as is written in Scripture, where it says to be Watchful and Respectful.

Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/
Mikkel Lybecker
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-02-09 09:55:20 UTC
This thread makes me want to abuse stuff.
Myyona
Ataraxia Pharmacies
#12 - 2012-02-09 10:44:37 UTC
This is an interesting and valid analysis. Of course, we should not forget that physical abuse is not the only kind of mistreatment that slaves face the Empire with the Vitoc Method being the most hideous of them all. Still, the general numbers on physical slave abuse in the Empire appears far exaggerated in Republic media and public compared to the real numbers.

This is not an endorsement of slavery in any way but widespread misinformation about an issue complicates the process of dealing with it.

CEO - Ataraxia Pharmacies Personal Biography
Drasden
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-02-09 11:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Drasden
Bob McGenericname wrote:
While I have never been in a position wherein I could own slaves, and thus the thought is a new one for me, surely the counterpoint to this is as follows: If you're getting a 40 hour work week out of your slaves, feeding them well and giving them facilities, you're working less of a profit than my hellfarm where slaves work 100 hour weeks fed on Carthum Brand Imitation Gruel (9 out of 10 orphans can't tell the difference!), are beaten in to mindnumbing submission and fully aware of the fact that I can and will just stop giving them Vitoc the moment I hear that they are grumbling.


As someone who has been in a position where I manage, if not own, slaves, let me assure you of something: They have a tendency to die when you treat them like that. Dead slaves are expensive to replace, at least relative to the cost of upkeep for living ones, and until you buy and often train the new slave you're short one competent worker. I already lose enough time to religious services, I don't find it efficient to waste more by working them until they're so tired as to be useless and then have to haul away the malnourished corpses.

Slaves, in fact, are hideously cost inefficient when compared to automation in all unskilled and most skilled labour. Drones are more expensive but can work twice as long, don't generally revolt, and my employer has yet to demand I spend more time developing their spiritual health.
Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#14 - 2012-02-09 20:15:28 UTC
Mikkel Lybecker wrote:
This thread makes me want to abuse stuff.


Why ?

Also, I read in this newspaper thing about stuff, that said in Pator, there are these places with large Brutor dudes, and weird ladies pay to spank the large brutor dudes for hours on end and stuff. Are you into that, cos that sounds weird and stuff.

Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/
Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#15 - 2012-02-09 20:18:48 UTC
Myyona wrote:
This is an interesting and valid analysis. Of course, we should not forget that physical abuse is not the only kind of mistreatment that slaves face the Empire with the Vitoc Method being the most hideous of them all. Still, the general numbers on physical slave abuse in the Empire appears far exaggerated in Republic media and public compared to the real numbers.

This is not an endorsement of slavery in any way but widespread misinformation about an issue complicates the process of dealing with it.


Yes, there is the Vitoc and stuff, and that's a thing that can be included in other stuff about things, such as the space habitat things that are hidden from view, where who knows what goes on and stuff.

Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/
Michael Tait
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-02-12 15:59:38 UTC
I think that it comes down to the fact that slavery is a morally degrigating crime. No one should be forced to live in chains, and the Amarr Empire only hurts themselves by using Slave Labor. Even if it wasn't about efficiency, your degrigating yourself by using slaves.

So, I querry you this: Slave labor, in the definition of the crime, is an abuse in itself: abuse of the soul.
EnslaverOfMinmatar
You gonna get aped
#17 - 2012-02-12 18:39:11 UTC
There's no such thing as 'slave abuse'. When a slaver hound isn't fed enough cheezmatarburgars that's abuse.

Every EVE player must read this http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=29-01-07
Kazzzi
Heathen Legion
Iron Men of the Hood
#18 - 2012-02-12 20:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kazzzi
I used to beat my slaves, but only when I felt they deserved it and almost never causing permanent harm. So did all of my friends and neighbors. Corporal punishment isn't really taboo in the Empire. I'm more concerned about a slave's overall lack of civil rights and personal freedoms than an occasional whipping.