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Why so many people moan about incursions.
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lilAnanke
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-02-02 05:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: lilAnanke
So new eden why is it that we have all turned into moaning buggers when it comes to incursions. Why is it people have such an issue with people making isk from them. I fly in both high and low sec incursions so can comment on the subject. If CCP boosted the rewards from low sec incursions people would fight to get to them. But what i dont understand is why Newer members who "farm " being used in the lose term for isk to allow them to gain isk for skill books and such and for plex's this should be encouraged as a way for our game play.Alowing people to pay for our accounts then it might bring more to the game. And the Bring more targets.

With regards to having to kill the mom to get the site to despawn why not have a timer set on it or an isk payout limit. What i also see if its people form some of the larger alliances who can fleild supers and such what you have to ask your self is here other than missions and buying plex's do people get there money for supers.

Basically what im saying is if you keep nerfing and moaning about the way people make isk in game you are going to ruin it for others dont nerf the incursions boost other things and take the people away form them and to other avenues of income and for god sake new eden STOP MOANING.
Citizen Smif
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-02-02 10:14:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Citizen Smif
I agree.. I hate all the moaning about incursions. Some people just like the safety of highsec, if highsec incursions were overly nerfed everyone is just going to go back to missions (which is pretty much on a par with mining in enjoyment.) Personally I support any PvE content that actively requires integration with other people.. This is an MMO after all.

Buff low sec incursions, missions and mining considerably then maybe you'd actually see people choosing to move out of high.. But just nerfing high sec income isn't going to do anything apart from **** people off. Encourage, don't force.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#3 - 2012-02-02 12:34:28 UTC
Getting lot of isk without any risk (at least on experienced fleet) makes different EVE areas unbalanced.

If you have Fleet of 10 people you can make 1b/ hour for fleet + lp so if they farm like 1 month 4 hours a day, they have made 120b isk so that is 12b / head in month without risk.

No wonder many 0.0 people farm those with alts at least.
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#4 - 2012-02-02 16:33:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Berendas
If you even have to ask why people have a problem with Incursions, you either haven't been playing this game for very long - or you just don't get how its supposed to work. ISK gain in EVE is supposed to be proportional to risk, and guess what... Incursions aren't risky. They were never intended to act as a massive ISK faucet and that's why people have a problem with them.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#5 - 2012-02-02 17:26:51 UTC
Just nerf the farming of vanguards and most of the complaints about incursions will melt away.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Ikra Atarm
The defenders of Greyskull inc.
#6 - 2012-02-02 18:47:06 UTC
Put it this way when I was running incursions I was making 150m an hour with pretty much 0 risk now look at standard lowsec system always in danger for getting ganked an if u farmed 12 hours you would probably make aroun the 500m mark if you were lucky where as an highsec incursion runner would of made 1.8bill as well as lp plus low sec u would get interupted more often
Due to roaming gangs with the risk reward ratio way outta balance the most profitable thing in highsec should be less then or equal to the least profitable thing in lowsec this would balance the isk reward ratio and yes you say well low sec incursions pay more ... They don't the may pay more per site however they take much longer considering in highsec all good fleets are faction fit you really gonna take that isk into low ... Don't think so so running is actually slower less isk incursions should give slightl more than lvl 4 s per hour
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#7 - 2012-02-02 20:03:07 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Just nerf the farming of vanguards and most of the complaints about incursions will melt away.


This. Vanguards are clearly unbalanced compared to the other sizes of incursion sites.

Also, Scout payouts and difficulty should probably be looked at. I ran a few sites just for kicks a bit ago and the salvage from the half-dozen wrecks was worth a few times more than the bounty itself (which is just kinda borked). They jump from being solo-able in a frig with 50k ISK and 50 LP payout to requiring a fleet of 6-10 BS/T3/Logis and paying out 10M+thousands of LP. It seems like Scouts should be manageable with 2-5 semi-skilled people and atleast pay out 1-3M, something between where they are now and Vanguards.
lilAnanke
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-02-02 21:25:52 UTC
Now lads I here you say there is no risk in high sec...... where dose it say that There has to be a risk to make isk surly you are takinging a risk every time you fly into a site unless you have total faith in the logi and the logi are compitent you are going down. And yes vanguards in highsec are faster I agree but people need to make money to play the game we moan about real money trading buying plex's you moan about misson lot being to high and it gets nerfed. Wjy dont you all moan about everything else being to low and leave incursions alone. If you complain about it why dont you just fly the bloody things yourself and make the isk everyone else is making. Its not us being greedy its us being sensiable we have found easy isk to make and we use it to fund our 0.0 adventures and super caps.


With regards to low sec being less profitable CCP have vust introduced ne inul fieids most of which can be found in low sec plex's so surely low sec is now on par with high sec incursions.
Ikra Atarm
The defenders of Greyskull inc.
#9 - 2012-02-02 22:55:26 UTC
No as u can't run those all days an the Price is dropping and I did fly incursions then I joined fw an. U do get groups such as NPo who have amazing logi it's pretty safe it's not the payout is to high it's the isk reward is to high name one thing I can sit down an earn a constant 100m an hr for 12 hours ?
Jaa-Ko Arakal
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-02-02 23:04:00 UTC
7.5/10, would be less but everyone fell for it.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-02-03 00:32:06 UTC
Ikra Atarm wrote:
No as u can't run those all days an the Price is dropping and I did fly incursions then I joined fw an. U do get groups such as NPo who have amazing logi it's pretty safe it's not the payout is to high it's the isk reward is to high name one thing I can sit down an earn a constant 100m an hr for 12 hours ?


Fighters assigned to a 4 BCU Tengu in a Sanctum/Haven system.
Nullsec missioning (assuming you either control the pocket or haven't pissed off everyone there).
L5s.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-02-03 03:55:41 UTC
It seems to be a trend that both shield and armor fleets have to be packed to same incursion system due to no otherone being available ... this leads to avarage 140 people in each VG system at most given times.

That equals not 100mil/h but less im afraid. It doesent help if you have pro fleet if you have no sites to run that fit your fleet comp. In some T3 fleets dominate and in some the BS heavier will do better.

Fact is VGs should be less rewarding then running assaults and assaults should be less rewarding then running HQs. Scout sites need to be looked at.

Its funny how propaganda by the "Burn it all to ground" people seems to be built ... you got that 160mil/h income once so you will claim that as the avarage income.
JunkRaider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-02-03 04:42:55 UTC
Hahahaha!! I can so relate to this on so many levels. I remember telling a pal of mine that lives in a wh that I make 100mil an hr ezzz running incursions. He was pissed.
Anyway, I don't think highsec incursions should be nerfed because incursions spawn everywhere and the reward definitely increases as you venture into lower sec space.
Incursions are also competitive so no one is making as much isk as you all claim without putting in a lot of effort unlike moon mining Roll and co.
Don't touch incursions. Leave it!!!
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-02-03 06:45:57 UTC
Well said already- the fundamental mechanic is increasing risk for increased reward. This is the funnel by which the PvP world of Eve is based around.
You should be horrifically limited in reward for the amount of risk involved with high sec activities. High sec mining should suck. High sec missions should be meaningless grinds, high sec incursions should be the lowest, least rewarding version, and should always be designed to lag behind the rewards available in more dangerous space.
Incursions are just the 'easy isk' flavor of the month. They pay out too much for the amount of risk involved.

Incursions are really just level 6+ missions (or an overgrown Ded Plex) It seems low or null is where they belong to begin with. Worm Holes are a better game mechanic IMO- there you have strong PvE (with strong rewards accordingly) but only at the risk of PvP plus the added gimp of an inactive local chat. No matter where you find the WH, the WH itself is null sec. That makes perfect sense given the rewards for the Sleeper sites.

For Incursions I think the lowest level ones could be in high sec, but any that pays out as much cash or LP as a level 5 mission should be in low or null.

Ikra Atarm
The defenders of Greyskull inc.
#15 - 2012-02-03 09:06:43 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Well said already- the fundamental mechanic is increasing risk for increased reward. This is the funnel by which the PvP world of Eve is based around.
You should be horrifically limited in reward for the amount of risk involved with high sec activities. High sec mining should suck. High sec missions should be meaningless grinds, high sec incursions should be the lowest, least rewarding version, and should always be designed to lag behind the rewards available in more dangerous space.
Incursions are just the 'easy isk' flavor of the month. They pay out too much for the amount of risk involved.

Incursions are really just level 6+ missions (or an overgrown Ded Plex) It seems low or null is where they belong to begin with. Worm Holes are a better game mechanic IMO- there you have strong PvE (with strong rewards accordingly) but only at the risk of PvP plus the added gimp of an inactive local chat. No matter where you find the WH, the WH itself is null sec. That makes perfect sense given the rewards for the Sleeper sites.

For Incursions I think the lowest level ones could be in high sec, but any that pays out as much cash or LP as a level 5 mission should be in low or null.




+1 exactly an u can make 150m an hour all u need is to contest sites with you faction fit Mach/legion fleet and you win if your sitting round waiting for anymore than 3 mins your doing it wrong
Ehn Roh
#16 - 2012-02-06 22:50:53 UTC
lilAnanke wrote:
Now lads I here you say there is no risk in high sec...... where dose it say that There has to be a risk to make isk surly you are takinging a risk every time you fly into a site -



lol no.

Seriously, no. No, you are not. "Risk" is generally referring to risk from others, not simple PvE failure. Nobody really has any excuse to fail in PvE, it's simply a matter of preparation and execution.

I think the payouts are a bit obnoxious for a PvE activity in hisec, and this means that when they pop up outside of hisec they just sit there. If there aren't enough locals to deal with it they just have to wait for it to go away.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#17 - 2012-02-06 23:59:09 UTC
CCP Diagoras gave some stats on his Twitter account.

In one day, the Incursion ISK payout total was 310Bn ISK to 1700-odd toons.
In the same day ALL bounties given out within the whole of New Eden was 980Bn ISK or thereabouts.
91% of Incursions were done in Hisec.

Make of that what you will.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
doombreed52
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2012-02-08 14:40:36 UTC
reverse where they spawn 3 in 0.0 2 in low 1 in high.
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#19 - 2012-02-08 18:24:11 UTC
mxzf wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Just nerf the farming of vanguards and most of the complaints about incursions will melt away.


This. Vanguards are clearly unbalanced compared to the other sizes of incursion sites.

Also, Scout payouts and difficulty should probably be looked at. I ran a few sites just for kicks a bit ago and the salvage from the half-dozen wrecks was worth a few times more than the bounty itself (which is just kinda borked). They jump from being solo-able in a frig with 50k ISK and 50 LP payout to requiring a fleet of 6-10 BS/T3/Logis and paying out 10M+thousands of LP. It seems like Scouts should be manageable with 2-5 semi-skilled people and atleast pay out 1-3M, something between where they are now and Vanguards.


While I agree on scouts, you have failed to make a argument for or against buffing vanguards. Maybe it is not as clearly as you thought?

Remove insurance.
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#20 - 2012-02-08 18:27:01 UTC
Ehn Roh wrote:

Seriously, no. No, you are not. "Risk" is generally referring to risk from others, not simple PvE failure. Nobody really has any excuse to fail in PvE, it's simply a matter of preparation and execution.


Seriosly, no. Risk is generally not refering to risk from others. Risk is just risk. And anyway nobody really has any excuse to fail in PvP either, it´s is as well a simple matter of preparations and executions.

Remove insurance.
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