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EFT v2.35 - Citadel
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WipeOut Inc. Pandemic Horde 1
Viby WipeOut Inc. Pandemic Horde Likes received: 1	#361 - 2012-02-04 07:36:24 UTC \| Edited by: Viby 1 Hi, if i change from a X-Large Shield Booster to a faction Domination X-Large Shield Booster the cap rate value dont decrease - but the activation cost are different from 400 GJ to 320 GJ. If i take a Complex Gist C-Type (176 GJ) its ok. sry correct: the activation time is important too Viby

pmchem

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 708

#362 - 2012-02-04 18:52:58 UTC

pmchem wrote:

yo gripen I posted a capacitor calculation question comparing pyfa and EFT, and the pyfa reply here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=399604#post399604
claimed pyfa supremacy. I'm interesting in hearing your reply before passing judgment. Thanks. original question ---

Question / possible bug:

All-V character, Abaddon ship. No implants/gang effects/etc. Only 2 mods fit: Quad Lif Fueled I Booster Rockets and Heavy Capacitor Booster II (with Cap Booster 400 loaded).

pyfa (latest winter preview) claims the following:
2m20sec cap with mwd running
10m30sec cap with mwd AND cap booster running

EFT (2.13.4) says 2m34sec with mwd running, 10m58sec with both mwd and cap booster.

As a follow-up on this, I just tested the abaddon with quaf lif mwd and heavy cap booster 2 on sisi (build 321215 - should be identical to TQ for this testing). Character had all-5 navigation and capacitor related skills, and no implants.

Using only the MWD: ship first failed to cycle MWD due to lack of cap at 2m 31s. (edit: this was probably 2m30s with the 1s differential due to latency in clicks)

CCP added an interesting feature to the fitting window on sisi: it tells you how long it will take your capacitor to deplete. It said 2m 30s for my abaddon fit, apparently ignoring the heavy cap booster.

For EFT: the mwd-running calculations were close, but a bit too optimistic as far as cycling mods goes.

pmchem wrote:

Gripen wrote:

Ok, I'll try to update capacitor calculation later because it's almost fininshed (but not the cargohold stuff) but can I ask why such precision matters to you? It's not like you can finish real ingame fight with up to few seconds accuracy to avoid yourself running out of cap and for uses where you just compare what is better to fit like "cap recharge rig" or "mwd-less-cap-use rig" errors introduced by capacitor calculation should cancel each other out.

I'm interested in the accuracy for other cases, such as supercapitals with various fits. The inaccuracy there can be many percentage points on cap stable setups, depending on fit. That can be the difference between jump cap stable or not.

Gripen, now that Crucible 1.1 and all its big changes are implemented, any chance you can revisit this? I find the capacitor calculation inaccuracy really is an important issue for certain capital ship fits, where the error in cap stability percent is a large difference between EFT versus (pyfa or ingame). I do really like EFT and would like to continue using it as my one-stop fitting tool! Thanks :)

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Sebastian Hoch

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 48

#363 - 2012-02-04 21:02:29 UTC | Edited by: Sebastian Hoch

Forgive me if this is already documented but in version 2.14.3 the Tengu engineering subsystems appear to be hosed up.

I am getting the Power Core Multiplier bonus from the Capacitor Regeneration Matrix and from the Supplemental Coolant Injector, but not from the Power Core Multiplier subsystem itself.

Great tool, thanks for all your work on this.

Thanks,

--Seb

Gripen

Likes received: 2,421

#364 - 2012-02-04 22:51:56 UTC

Portia Venetia wrote:

When I try to perform an API update, it fails with error "Connection failed," which isn't very descriptive. Does EFT keep an error log anywhere that I can have a look at to see what's going wrong?

At the moment there is no detailed error info available.

pmchem wrote:

I find the capacitor calculation inaccuracy really is an important issue for certain capital ship fits, where the error in cap stability percent is a large difference between EFT versus (pyfa or ingame).

How big the difference is? Or can you give an example of such fit?

Sebastian Hoch wrote:

I am getting the Power Core Multiplier bonus from the Capacitor Regeneration Matrix and from the Supplemental Coolant Injector, but not from the Power Core Multiplier subsystem itself.

If you are talking about Power Core Multiplier subsystem giving less grid than other two you mentioned then there is no error but a misleading naming by CCP.

Fekaline

The Pack

Likes received: 2

#365 - 2012-02-05 15:51:39 UTC | Edited by: Fekaline

Fekaline wrote:

There is a problem with the ammo ranges of the AC and Artillary rounds. Namely Quake and Hail are not correctly taking into account the removal of the detriments they use to have.

Same as above - they look right in latest version.[/quote]

Please check a typical hurricane fit with arty or AC tech 2 guns. Swap from EMP to Quake or hail depending the gun Of course. You will see the optimal range fall through the floor. These detriments were removed from those ammos. Unless i missed a patch where they put them back in.

Another problem that I have found is if a ship ie, the Nag has 2 different high weapon systems, it is only counting the dps from the AC's and not the Torps. I am not sure if it is just that ship model or if it is systemic with all the ships that have differing highs for weapons.

These problems were found using the latest eft on the mirror site as of Feb 5 2012. I hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply. Smile

pmchem

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 708

#366 - 2012-02-05 19:04:07 UTC

Gripen wrote:

pmchem wrote:

How big the difference is? Or can you give an example of such fit?

Sure, here are a couple examples. All-5 chars, no implants or gangboosts.

[Erebus, example]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Aurora Ominae
Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Guristas Antimatter Charge XL
Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Guristas Antimatter Charge XL
Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Guristas Antimatter Charge XL
Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Guristas Antimatter Charge XL
Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Guristas Antimatter Charge XL
Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Guristas Antimatter Charge XL
[empty high slot]

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

[Abaddon, example]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Damage Control II

Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L

Large Energy Burst Aerator I
Large Energy Collision Accelerator I
[empty rig slot]

With the Erebus, EFT 2.14.3 says stable at 75% while pyfa 1.1.2 says stable at 63.4%. In particular, the doomsday module seems to be responsible for the difference in calculations. I imagine other high duration, high activation mods would cause similar problems. When the doomsday cycle ends and the titan is eligible to jump again, what will its cap % be? Above 70% for jumping? And what would its average cap % be with all mods running? I realize this is an idealized example and in combat a titan may be receiving cap xfers or be neuted, but it's still important. Other capital pilots may have similar fits which are either above or below jump cap depending on EFT vs pyfa.

With the abaddon, EFT reports 42% and pyfa 38% (MWD OFF in both cases). It's as if pyfa is reporting worst-case cap % with all mods cycling and EFT is either using average cap % or best-case cap %. I'm not sure... could you explain? 4% is a significant difference for a boring subcap fit, in my opinion at least.

Thanks for your work on EFT!

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Doomheim 1
Marlit Hakens Doomheim Likes received: 1	#367 - 2012-02-06 16:36:01 UTC 1 Amazing !!!

Gripen

Likes received: 2,421

#368 - 2012-02-06 18:02:38 UTC

Fekaline wrote:

Please check a typical hurricane fit with arty or AC tech 2 guns. Swap from EMP to Quake or hail depending the gun Of course. You will see the optimal range fall through the floor. These detriments were removed from those ammos. Unless i missed a patch where they put them back in.

I can't see any differences between those ammo in EFT or ingame. If you do believe there is an error please provide exact fit which gives you wrong results and numbers you get from EFT and ingame.

Fekaline wrote:

Another problem that I have found is if a ship ie, the Nag has 2 different high weapon systems, it is only counting the dps from the AC's and not the Torps. I am not sure if it is just that ship model or if it is systemic with all the ships that have differing highs for weapons.

Are you sure you're not confusing DPS with volley damage? For mixed turret and missile setups volley damage is shown for turrets only.

pmchem wrote:

...

Please, do not compare EFT with Pyfa as by doing so you at least doubling the possibility of error.

For the titan fit: There is no such thing as a cap stability with the module which uses almost one fifth of total ship capacitor. What kind of number do you want to see? "Cap at the end of the cycle of most consuming module" while be useful for your "titan jump out" scenario but will be non-intuitive for the other ships.

For the abaddon fit number seems to be accurate enough (0.5% difference between current EFT and improved unreleased algorithm) and within error tolerance.

pmchem

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 708

#369 - 2012-02-07 01:54:47 UTC

Gripen wrote:

For the titan fit: There is no such thing as a cap stability with the module which uses almost one fifth of total ship capacitor. What kind of number do you want to see? "Cap at the end of the cycle of most consuming module" while be useful for your "titan jump out" scenario but will be non-intuitive for the other ships.

You're playing semantics a bit by saying "there is no such thing as a cap stability with the module which uses almost one fifth of total ship capacitor" -- I mean, of course there is. If I can leave all mods running continuously from server up to server down without having any deactivate due to not having enough capacitor for activation (ignoring fuel/ammo), then the fit is cap stable. We both know this.

But the precise definition is important, yes. I would just like to know what EFT _means_ right now when it says "stable at X%".
Does that mean that in a simulation using discrete timesteps, the expected value for capacitor percent is X?
Or that during a simulation using discrete timesteps, the fit will never have mods deactivate due to lack of cap, and lowest capacitor value during that simulation will be X?
Or something else entirely, such as a calculation just using average rates of regeneration and depletion, and not an actual simulation? This would matter since capacitor regenerates at different rates depending on value of cap.

EFT seems accurate for the most part -- I'm not trying to belittle your work. It's just that for unusual situations, such as capitals with high activation mods trying to stay above jump cap, the exact way "stable at X%" is calculated and what that _means_ becomes very important. If you could clarify, that would be most welcome. Thanks.

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Zor's Club B.E.A.R.S. 3
Maktina Zor's Club B.E.A.R.S. Likes received: 3	#370 - 2012-02-07 04:18:17 UTC 1 It's quite possible file sharing sites will stop sharing EFT soon (many such sites have stopped public file sharing in light of the recent shutdown of Megaupload) so I've put this mirror up just incase: http://sectorgame.com/eve/upload/?nav=display&file=29

Cypro V

Institut fuer Weltraumforschung

Likes received: 1

#371 - 2012-02-08 00:18:02 UTC

Hey Gripen,
first of all, great tool. but unfortunetly i've got a problem. A few weeks ago i installed java 64bit, since that everytime i try to start EFT i get that massage: " "is not a valid floating point value." when i confirm with "OK" the EFT window opens. Then when i start the ship browser it shows no ships classes, when i click on one of the buttons where the faction symbols should be (who are empty btw.) i'll get this message: "Invalid index".
Do you know this problem? I also reinstalled java 32 bit and it didn't solved this problem.

Thanks in advance

Cypro

fakeedit: my OS is win7

Immortal Demigod

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 17

#372 - 2012-02-08 07:42:51 UTC

Hi, there seems to be a (naming only?) issue between in-game and EFT for the Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive and Experimental 10MN Afterburner.

In-game, there is an I at the end of both module names, but in EFT, there is not.

This, i think, is the cause of some issues i've been experiencing with import/export between the two.

When trying to import an EFT-created fitting to in-game including either module, there is an error message and that slot ends up empty in the fitting.

When trying to import a fitting made in-game to EFT that includes either module, there is no error message, but that slot still ends up empty.

I have only noticed this for the Cruiser sized Meta 3 AB/MWD.

Great tool tho, i use it all the time - keep up the good work! :)

Be on your guard - do not trust too quickly, as there are those who might exploit this weakness.

Drat, my full Bio text won't fit within the character limit on Signatures.

Oh well.

State War Academy Caldari State 46
Kaivaja State War Academy Caldari State Likes received: 46	#373 - 2012-02-08 08:09:32 UTC 1 I confirmed Immortal's report in this post.


Immortal Demigod Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 17	#374 - 2012-02-08 11:22:08 UTC 1 Ahh i should have searched b4 posting, my bad. Be on your guard - do not trust too quickly, as there are those who might exploit this weakness. Drat, my full Bio text won't fit within the character limit on Signatures. Oh well.

BeastlyRage

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 99

#375 - 2012-02-08 15:52:27 UTC

Hi, I have recently encountered a serious problem with EFT. Basically I used to have Windows Vista 32bit, and with a recent mobo, CPU and RAM overhaul I have installed Windows 7 64bit on a new HDD. I was using EFT from the old hard drive, and I have patched it just buy overriding the old install with the new files.

Now, the problem.

Eft has been crashing a few times, but thats okay. One time it crashed, and when I rebooted basicaly all my fits down from the omen and of all the ships above were deleted. Gone. Not even in the folder. The only ships left were frigate sized hulls and destroyers, apart from the omen and arby. Its really wierd. Now that really pissed me off because I always was an EFT warrior and all my fits just vanished. Whatever. Except it just happened again. Same exact thing, except now all my fits from punisher up are gone.

My madness has no bound. Pretty much ALL my fits are gone. What shall I ever do?

Fillingkillboards

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 12

#376 - 2012-02-08 16:49:06 UTC

BeastlyRage wrote:

Sounds like you should learn how to backup everything you deem important. Other than that, not much you can do. The fact that your computer just ate all your cookies is a very interesting problem that I have no answer to.

BeastlyRage

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 99

#377 - 2012-02-08 18:30:24 UTC

Fillingkillboards wrote:

BeastlyRage wrote:

Lol computer ate my cookies.
I'm pretty sure the fittings are saved as files in the Setups folder though

Thomy Greenish

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 9

#378 - 2012-02-09 15:55:38 UTC | Edited by: Thomy Greenish

Gripen wrote:

Le Clerq wrote:

One question, where can i enter the proxy server address and port?

EFT uses Windows settings (Control Panel > Internet Options).

This is not fair, in my office I can't manage IE proxy settings... cause of GPO. (i use a manual proxy config in an other webbrowser)

Is it possible to give back this setting in your awesome program dude?

thx in advance!


Thomy Greenish Perkone Caldari State Likes received: 9	#379 - 2012-02-09 15:58:49 UTC \| Edited by: Thomy Greenish 1 Burp! Double

Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 2
Beg Askiras Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State Likes received: 2	#380 - 2012-02-09 17:07:10 UTC 1 Hey Gripen. Great program and keep the good work up. I'm here to report a incorrect item stat: Coreli %-Type Small Armor Repairer, Uses 35 J activation and not 40 J. % = a,b,c

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Ships & Modules

WipeOut Inc.

Pandemic Horde

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

The Pack

Doomheim

Zor's Club

B.E.A.R.S.

Institut fuer Weltraumforschung

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

State War Academy

Caldari State

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

State War Academy

Caldari State

Perkone

Caldari State

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State