EVE General Discussion

adding limits does not preserve the sandbox.

the problem occurs when you create a high sec that is a complete safe-zone. These new war-dec rules could be a first step towards that. That's the real concern people have. I understand you're not concerned by it, but others are.


Carebears create stuff generally speaking.

PVPERS destroy stuff, generally speaking.

They need each other.

No place should be 100% safe, and if it is, it cannot offer the same or even close-to-the-same rewards and a riskier place. Otherwise, there's no reason to go to the unsafe parts except to pew for the sake of pewing. If you don't live somewhere, there's less reason to pew, and the only folks left to pew will be few. ( pardon the rhyme )

few pewers means less stuff destroyed, which means less stuff needs to be bought, and less stuff needs to be built. So for the non PVE crowd, their work generates less isk, and their work is generally less needed.

Few pewers means pewers get less fights and log in less and ultimately leave from boredom

Less need for stuff, means miners, researchers, and builders have less and less of a purpose, get bored and ultimately leave.

Then you have left a group of folks that logs into an MMO to grind against computre controlled crap... but why? Then it's just a grind, and they'll move on to the next grindy mmo that doesn't have the steep learning curve and skill training necessary, like eve does.

Take away the risk, and you make the reward pointless.

Try this one instead: Vicious circle

Meh, bad article in that it focuses on only one change in Eve and then extrapolates it into doomsday.

What I see is that CCP is trying to create graduated levels of PvP in order to attract and keep new subs.

If you look at factional warfare, the "winner takes all" incursion mechanics, and the changes to insurance/war-decs, it would appear that CCP is trying to ease players into PvP at their own pace and at their own comfort level. Why make it "easier" to play Eve? For the simple reason that the HTFU portion of the MMO customer base is probably limited (aka a niche pool) and Eve isn't going to grow since it's maxed out the HTFU crowd. If CCP wants to grow, they need to make Eve more friendly to get into, but yet do so without undermining the "Eve is a harsh world" PvP paradigm.

For some reason this offends the "a PvP game should be harsh on newbies in order to separate the wheat from the chaff" and any attempt to make PvP easier/safer/consensual is seen as weakness. IMO, CCP is starting to take the view that carebears or casual PvP players can be trained into becoming HTFU PvP players if Eve's PvP mechanics weren't so clumsy and had less hazing/bullying a smoother learning curve.

What I see is:
a) high-sec is being made safer to attract and keep fresh blood. Let's not scare off new players by letting them get ganked out of the box via arcane and obtuse non-consensual PvP mechanics.

b) rumors about adding sleeper AI to missions/exploration in order to acclimate carebears to flying with PvP fittings

c) competitive Incursions in high-sec to get people used to fighting with other players indirectly

d) Faction Warfare: low-sec without calling it low-sec. Make it social and easy to get into without the drama and headaches of finding a private corp.

e) Low-Sec: aka random, unbalanced "battlegrounds"

f) NPC-Null Sec: upgraded low-sec without the restrictions, but with "safe/neutral" bases.

g) Wormhole space: Like null-sec but friendlier for smaller, organized groups. Has NPCs that encourage PvP tactics and group coordination. Less likely to get steam-rolled by large corps/alliances.

h) Null-Sec: hard-core, empire building PvP requiring planning, logistics, strategy, spies, diplomacy, etc., and PvP that almost(?) spills into RL.

i) Dust: try to draw in the mindless deathmatch crowd of today FPS games with Eve's "losses that hurt make for a better PvP experience" paradigm.

The only PvP group that CCP doesn't seem to want to appeal to is the "mindless, immediate deathmatch with unlimited respawns" crowd that doesn't have to worry about losses, paying for ships, or downtime (e.g. Quake, TF2, Planetside.)

Future changes I expect to see:
* cheaper clones
* easier to jump into pvp - i.e. Put formal support/advertising into RvB.
* Faction Warfare overhaul.

Future Changes That Would Go Too Far:
* free or near free clones (i.e. Faction Warfare clones are subsidized by the faction.)
* free or near free ships
* balanced arenas/battlegrounds
* instances locked to a fleet


tl;dr CCP needs new subs, and is changing the game to in an attempt to appeal to a wider audience without undermining Eve's PvP focus.

How does making highsec safer turn players into HTFU PvP players? Magic?

FW is borked. Wardecs are avoidable. And what do incursions have to do with PvP?

Here are some ideas:

Sleeper AI in all missions, requiring more PvP-like fits, and fleets of 2-3 ships. That one step means that players flying in PvE will be learning how to use essential PvP tactics such as webs, remote reps, etc, just as Incursions have raised the bar. In addition, fitting for missions will no longer mean you will automatically fail at PvP.

Simplified aggression & permission to shoot mechanics would mean that you no longer have to memorize 50-odd situations in which you might or might not be visited by CONCORD for shooting or repping someone. Making the rules less arcane will reduce the level of fear that people have for wardecs. In a perfect world, repping someone who is at war should invite immediate CONCORD response. No more neutral reps for "one-man" wardec corps will encourage wardecced corps to fight instead of staying docked, playing alts, or playing Skyrim. By making hisec safer, you can, in fact, encourage more people out of their shell.

Dear Poetic,

Your Bosons give me a Hadron.

o/

lol tripple post :p