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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Obsidian Front Press Release
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Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#41 - 2012-02-06 20:27:18 UTC
Pilot Constantine I must ask why you're sullying yourself with such a vigorous defense of a bunch of common lying pirates?

I was a neutral observer last year and witnessed for myself in Pator as Front pilots provided neutral repair, intelligence and scouting for APAX during that group's war of aggression against the Electus Matari. I've seen them run gatecamps and attack neutral (unarmed) haulers. I've heard them proclaim in local comms how they enjoy "attacking targets of opportunity". Does this not sound like the very definition of piracy?

To me this all sounds oddly like some kind of deathbed conversion. The Front is about to be ground into dust and they know it. This seems like a desperate, last-ditch effort to save themselves from the retribution they've so richly earned after months of criminal activity within the Republic.

I doubt that many here are fooled by this "new" Obsidian Front charade. It's all a bunch of flowery words. It's smoke and mirrors, a poorly written play full of sound and fury ultimately signifying nothing.

No one will cry when this piratical group is sent to hell where they belong.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#42 - 2012-02-06 21:38:48 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
Pilot Constantine I must ask why you're sullying yourself with such a vigorous defense of a bunch of common lying pirates?


I could as well ask why a student of the Scope trainee corporation is sullying himself by asking a dishonest leading question on Galnet apprentice Bete. But let us dispense with the rhetorical flourish and cut to the meat of the matter.

You allege a number of things that are fully accepted by all parties. Thus the body of your critique is simply repetition of points other people have made better long ago. We know that FRONT aided APAX during the latters war of aggression against EM. We know that FRONT consider it a mistake to have taken sides on this issue. We know that that Individual's in FRONT identification have attacked neutrals. We know that FRONT have renounced such behaviour and publicly announced their intention to adapt NRDS ideology to better defend the interests of Free Matari citizenry.

Yet you ask why I take a moment from my schedule to support FRONT in this new direction?

Well put simply, I have always preferred to take the side of a man who doesn't claim perfection and admits to mistakes over one who claims to be flawless. Better an NSBI capsuleer reformed to the interests of freespace and individual sovereignty than a hypocritical crusader in Matari drabs who speaks lynch mob and vendetta while the true regressive menace flourishes in Matari lowsec.

Quote:
To me this all sounds oddly like some kind of deathbed conversion. The Front is about to be ground into dust and they know it. This seems like a desperate, last-ditch effort to save themselves from the retribution they've so richly earned after months of criminal activity within the Republic.


You can reach that conclusion of course. But it seems to me a peculiarly misinformed and ignorant one given the situation in space. Better to my eyes to take FRONT at their word and trust they now wish to focus their energies completely on NBSI roadblockers and pirate hostiles who wish to predate on Matari lifeblood.

Quote:
I doubt that many here are fooled by this "new" Obsidian Front charade. It's all a bunch of flowery words. It's smoke and mirrors, a poorly written play full of sound and fury ultimately signifying nothing. No one will cry when this piratical group is sent to hell where they belong.


Your critique is as original as your rhetoric student Bete. I dearly hope you are not studying for exams in creative debate because your mastery of the art is lacking in many respects. But I imagine we will need to agree to differ. I would urge you to show restraint and learn to hope for the best in times to come. Sometimes the universe has a way of surprising you to the positive after all.


The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Johan Marberg
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#43 - 2012-02-07 02:45:19 UTC
In my time as an EM diplomat I found that when setting people red for piracy in losec the responses you got to notifications came in two broad catagories. It went like this....

"Hello. You appear to be pirates (for the attached reasons). We will be setting you red for piracy. Is this correct?"

Response type 1).

"Yarr we be pirates and damned proud of it. Yarr." People like Gunpoint Diplomacy a stellar example of such

Response type 2).

"No we are not pirates. Pirates wear funny hats and have parrots and are all flashy and stuff. And do it for a living. And camp gates all the time. We just recreationally murder people in low sec for the lols. We are not pirates."

The Obsidian Front fell into that latter catagory. Pirates that don't like to think of themselves as pirates but just randomly waylay passers by for fun. I guess you could claim that they weren't pirates and were just muggers? We still set them red for that in any case.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#44 - 2012-02-07 03:15:48 UTC
Johan Marberg wrote:

The Obsidian Front fell into that latter catagory. Pirates that don't like to think of themselves as pirates but just randomly waylay passers by for fun. I guess you could claim that they weren't pirates and were just muggers? We still set them red for that in any case.


Is anyone actually criticising your decision to set people red for shooting your ships? I don't think so. And I don't think that is what this thread is about. The question is are you prepared to respond to a progressive change of ROE in an encouraging manner now it has been made public?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Johan Marberg
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#45 - 2012-02-07 06:08:13 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Johan Marberg wrote:

The Obsidian Front fell into that latter catagory. Pirates that don't like to think of themselves as pirates but just randomly waylay passers by for fun. I guess you could claim that they weren't pirates and were just muggers? We still set them red for that in any case.


Is anyone actually criticising your decision to set people red for shooting your ships? I don't think so. And I don't think that is what this thread is about. The question is are you prepared to respond to a progressive change of ROE in an encouraging manner now it has been made public?



Oh that. Well I have to say I don't buy it. More of their usual attempts to sleaze their way off our red list.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#46 - 2012-02-07 10:59:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Johan Marberg wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Johan Marberg wrote:

The Obsidian Front fell into that latter catagory. Pirates that don't like to think of themselves as pirates but just randomly waylay passers by for fun. I guess you could claim that they weren't pirates and were just muggers? We still set them red for that in any case.


Is anyone actually criticising your decision to set people red for shooting your ships? I don't think so. And I don't think that is what this thread is about. The question is are you prepared to respond to a progressive change of ROE in an encouraging manner now it has been made public?



Oh that. Well I have to say I don't buy it. More of their usual attempts to sleaze their way off our red list.


You consider it "usual" for an organization to announce its reconsidered its ROE and apologize for past mistakes and for its leader to propose to meet your combat pilots one against many to account for the errors of judgement that have led to this pass?

I must say I don't find that usual behaviour for the intergalactic summit at all.

What is "usual" in these affairs is pettifoggery, selective quoting, bitter little tit-for-tatting and peanut gallery sniping. And in this case I find very little of the "usual" whatsoever in the balance and substance of FRONT's public releations on this thread.

It almost sounds like you are reaching for a reason to deny this diplomatic request Johan Marberg.

But one of the things about running an enlightened NRDS engagement policy (as we do in the Fraction) is you must be prepared to listen to reasonable attempts to broker ceasefire from entities that no longer wish to fight you - otherwise you leave yourself open to the accusation that your NRDS is more about the red list than it is about the principle behind it.

But in closing I'd suggest you avoid "sleazy" as a descriptor in diplomatic negotiations in the future. Its not really very ... well ... diplomatic.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Kmelx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-02-07 13:17:27 UTC
It is understandable given the history of hostilities between EM, COA and FRONT there will be some people with strong views held about the respective personalities, corporations or alliances on all sides, you can't fight each other as often as we have without at least a few people developing hostile or sceptical opinions.

As Amun mentioned earlier this matter is probably best left to private discussions between the respective diplomats. I'm sure all parties will have the opportunity to put forward their views during their internal discussions of this announcement, in the mean time I would suggest that everyone avoids comments which could prejudice the diplomatic process.
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#48 - 2012-02-07 13:36:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ynot Eyob
Kmelx wrote:
It is understandable given the history of hostilities between EM, COA and FRONT there will be some people with strong views held about the respective personalities, corporations or alliances on all sides, you can't fight each other as often as we have without at least a few people developing hostile or sceptical opinions.

As Amun mentioned earlier this matter is probably best left to private discussions between the respective diplomats. I'm sure all parties will have the opportunity to put forward their views during their internal discussions of this announcement, in the mean time I would suggest that everyone avoids comments which could prejudice the diplomatic process.


I couldnt agree more. We have lost a fair amount of comrades since the agreement of this change, and me saying enough is enough lets use our resources and forces better.

They would rather lose everything they have than even think of setting EM, COA and supporters neutral.
Some rage quit as pod pilots problally never to be seen again, others grapped their ships and said its been an honor flying with The Front, but my hate is to big and will never change, your better without me.

So there are people with very strong views.

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#49 - 2012-02-07 13:58:21 UTC
Kmelx wrote:
It is understandable given the history of hostilities between EM, COA and FRONT there will be some people with strong views held about the respective personalities, corporations or alliances on all sides, you can't fight each other as often as we have without at least a few people developing hostile or sceptical opinions.

As Amun mentioned earlier this matter is probably best left to private discussions between the respective diplomats. I'm sure all parties will have the opportunity to put forward their views during their internal discussions of this announcement, in the mean time I would suggest that everyone avoids comments which could prejudice the diplomatic process.


Agreed Kmelx, I am disheartened by the weasel words being employed by some in here to sully OF. Fine, we get the point.. bad blood and all that, we have members that feel the same about EM as you do about us but you don't see them in here adding their own brand of distaste.

'll be continuing all further contact through private channels. Thanks for reading to those that did so, my apologies that this ended up very close to yet another bicker contest in IGS.

Someone once said, 'Honour Isn’t About Making The Right Choices. It’s About Dealing With The Consequences.' Many will not view OF as honourable, now or in the future but as long as we feel we are making up for past choices then what others think doesn't matter. We can but try, it's better to try and fail than do nothing.

Enough of this words on screen business, if anyone wants to find me you know how. Whether you want to say something down the barrel of a gun or at a local bar, drink in hand I'm fine with either.












Altaen
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#50 - 2012-02-07 17:34:05 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:


But in closing I'd suggest you avoid "sleazy" as a descriptor in diplomatic negotiations in the future. Its not really very ... well ... diplomatic.


And I'd suggest that you not consider anything that happens on this Summit "diplomatic negotiations." Our head diplomat has already stated clearly that there would not be any diplomacy taking place in this setting. Any further statements here should probably be taken as idle discussion, if anything.
Crazy Vania
EM Program for Training and Youth
#51 - 2012-02-08 00:20:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Crazy Vania
SF, I appreciate what you guys are trying to do ( encourage NBSI corps to turn NRDS, and make sure all old enemies make a good effort to change their standing orders ). It's one of the noblest causes in New Eden.

But this one I wouldn't poke with a 40 meters breacher antenna. The real problem here lies in that Ynot has used the diplomatic card so many times in the past I can only imagine the face of EM diplomats when they read this (11th ? 12th ?) try at making it look like they are turning around.

What the obsidian front needs is a drastic change in leadership, not an announcement from its current ( yes, sleazy is exactly the right word ) leader on IGS.

I've seen EM heartily change its standings so many times on NBSI->NRDS promises, and they still do it with optimism for most groups that contact them. It's just... this one is special.

Hey but who knows, I wouldn't be surprised if EM tries yet another time if Ynob actually contacts their diplomats in a private setting. They and the COA are doing pretty good right now in MH, Heim and Metro, so they have some breathing room for predictable failures.
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#52 - 2012-02-08 00:36:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ynot Eyob
Crazy Vania wrote:
SF, I appreciate what you guys are trying to do ( encourage NBSI corps to turn NRDS, and make sure all old enemies make a good effort to change their standing orders ). It's one of the noblest causes in New Eden.

But this one I wouldn't poke with a 100 meters breacher antenna. The real problem here lies in that Ynot has used the diplomatic card so many times in the past I can only imagine the face of EM diplomats when they read this (11th ? 12th ?) try at making it look like they are turning around.

What the obsidian front needs is a drastic change in leadership, not an announcement from its current ( yes, sleazy is exactly the right word ) leader on IGS.

I've seen EM heartily change its standings so many times on NBSI->NRDS promises, and they still do it with optimism for most groups that contact them. It's just... this one is special.

Hey but who knows, I wouldn't be surprised if EM tries yet another time if Ynob actually contacts their diplomats in a private setting. They and the COA are doing pretty good right now in MH, Heim and Metro, so they have some breathing room for predictable failures.


Iv spoken with EM Diplomates once in the past, 1 year ago.
And then yesterday, in a nice forum.

When EM started to gank our hulks in nakugard (On youtube) and then war decced us, I did a mistake not contacting their diplomat but made a rage post on the forums, which i admitted in my orginal post, with the pressure from 250 Industrials who didnt know what was going on. All the old acuccations regarding neutral scouting, i personal thought was handled in the past when we got set neutral again, after a decent talk with EM diplomate regarding APAX.

We had HQ in Eram, same system as APAX at that time, and we did missions out of Pator and Lustrevik.

Iv had one convasation with an EM diplomate in the past, and was in my best belive that everything was settled. Noone adressed me after that with any issued.

That said, this is my last statement on this Press Release.

Alot of hate have neutral build up on both sides, but I stand with the release, regardless of EMs future plans or what they think of us. Iv handed out my hand, lost alot of pride admitting we were not grown enough to handle NBSI. All those pointing fingers.. alot it more rumors, assumsion and for some just an excuse to call me a lier again...

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
JackEuchre
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-02-08 02:19:32 UTC
It has come to my attention something is deeply concerning. EM, who I congatulate in joining up with Faction warfar, has also made Fearless, a known criminal and mercenary alliance blue.


http://www.electusmatari.com/standings/rc/

Fearless (who we are at war with in full discosure), are known for ganking neutral industrials in low sec who are simply attempting to use custom offices.

Consider this Killmail this week as proof.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12322100

I do know who BoB is and even though he has a positive sec status and is in the Federal Navy Accadamy and only started playing this game 2 weeks ago, was flying and industrail without any guns, apparently, there was some justification.

I say this cause, because of EM's definition of crimes, this would be considered piracy. As EM set fearless to blue, it must have a good explaination.

This is just one murder of many of by Fearless in the last few weeks of industrials and neutrals.

If Obsidian Front is being held to the standard that we can't reform and can't be trusted, how can a alliance, who has in the description that they are mercenaries be blue. Another crime per EM is unprovoked wars. Mercenaries, by definition make war for profit, not provokation. As they are currently criminals in the regard that they murder new pilots in industrails and make war per profit, I am VERY confused on their recent blue status?

Anyone care to explain?
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#54 - 2012-02-08 02:37:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
JackEuchre wrote:
It has come to my attention something is deeply concerning. EM, who I congatulate in joining up with Faction warfar, has also made Fearless, a known criminal and mercenary alliance blue.


http://www.electusmatari.com/standings/rc/

Fearless (who we are at war with in full discosure), are known for ganking neutral industrials in low sec who are simply attempting to use custom offices.

Consider this Killmail this week as proof.


I do know who BoB is and even though he has a positive sec status and is in the Federal Navy Accadamy and only started playing this game 2 weeks ago, was flying and industrail without any guns, apparently, there was some justification.

I say this cause, because of EM's definition of crimes, this would be considered piracy. As EM set fearless to blue, it must have a good explaination.

This is just one murder of many of by Fearless in the last few weeks of industrials and neutrals.

If Obsidian Front is being held to the standard that we can't reform and can't be trusted, how can a alliance, who has in the description that they are mercenaries be blue. Another crime per EM is unprovoked wars. Mercenaries, by definition make war for profit, not provokation. As they are currently criminals in the regard that they murder new pilots in industrails and make war per profit, I am VERY confused on their recent blue status?

Anyone care to explain?


I obviously can't offer much in way of explanation for EM (they may or may not choose to do so themselves) but I can at least report that the piratical-merc in question was removed from his neutral-shooting Cynabal earlier this evening by a small Star Fraction gang in otou. (it was a moderately expensive ship).

http://tinyurl.com/88xqyp8

The bigger issue here for me though is that FEARLESS as an organization is attacking low-tax Customs Offices in Matari lowsec and replacing them with 100% tax offices. This seems to me to be a direct assault on the fiscal liberties of the Matari people. And I think FEARLESS see their offices as a direct ISK pump straight into their corporate wallet while the populations on the worlds below are denied goods and trade under the regressive blockades doomed to be virtual slaves by this capsuleer monopoly.

I find it quite incredible that Electus Matari would encourage or even turn a blind eye to this sort of thing and so must conclude its mere diplomatic glitch and somebody must have simply blundered with the standings.

Still such things happen and nobody should rush to judgement. I am sure Electus Matari will resolve this aberation without delay.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Johan Marberg
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#55 - 2012-02-08 10:31:01 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

The bigger issue here for me though is that FEARLESS as an organization is attacking low-tax Customs Offices in Matari lowsec and replacing them with 100% tax offices.


Just checked the ones in Miroitem. They say 5%. Maybe they have set a 100% tax for their reds.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#56 - 2012-02-08 10:49:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Johan Marberg wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:

The bigger issue here for me though is that FEARLESS as an organization is attacking low-tax Customs Offices in Matari lowsec and replacing them with 100% tax offices.


Just checked the ones in Miroitem. They say 5%. Maybe they have set a 100% tax for their reds.


Perhaps they have changed their policy. Or perhaps you are right and only blues get rates. Either way it was clear they intended 100% tax when they made the following announcement:



Channel ID: (('solarsystemid2', 30002723),)
Channel Name: Local
Listener: Jade Constantine
Session started: 2012.01.29 20:35:49

[ 2012.01.29 20:37:32 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Miroitem
[ 2012.01.29 20:38:19 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Lamadent
[ 2012.01.29 20:53:36 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Otou
[ 2012.01.29 20:54:58 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Lamadent

...

[ 2012.01.29 22:54:50 ] kyrieee > fear the tigercat
[ 2012.01.29 22:54:56 ] Amantus > lawl
[ 2012.01.29 23:00:08 ] Antaris Xenal > gf
[ 2012.01.29 23:00:10 ] Hehulk > gf
[ 2012.01.29 23:00:10 ] Zilulil > gf
[ 2012.01.29 23:00:11 ] ry ry > gf
[ 2012.01.29 23:00:12 ] BobbaPhett > gf
[ 2012.01.29 23:00:13 ] Mortvvs > gf
[ 2012.01.29 23:00:13 ] Jehlom > gf
[ 2012.01.29 23:00:14 ] Snake O'Connor > gf
[ 2012.01.29 23:00:15 ] Amantus > gf
[ 2012.01.29 23:00:15 ] kyrieee > POCO down, prepare for the communist revolution you filthy liberals
[ 2012.01.29 23:01:09 ] Master OlavPancrazio > dont liberals like commies?
[ 2012.01.29 23:01:15 ] Mortvvs > look at those t1 drones
[ 2012.01.29 23:01:20 ] kyrieee > 100% tax pocos
[ 2012.01.29 23:01:21 ] kyrieee > wait for it
[ 2012.01.29 23:01:39 ] Master OlavPancrazio > we will put up 100% pocos
[ 2012.01.30 00:03:09 ] Mortvvs > look at all these pirates

***

That said its also very clear they are NBSI and intend to engage anyone they please.


Channel ID: (('solarsystemid2', 30002053),)
Channel Name: Local
Listener: Jade Constantine
Session started: 2012.01.28 15:59:11

[ 2012.01.28 16:37:49 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Otou
[ 2012.01.28 17:29:54 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Lamadent
[ 2012.01.28 17:30:09 ] Jade Constantine > heya snake
[ 2012.01.28 17:30:41 ] Snake O'Connor > Hi
[ 2012.01.28 17:32:21 ] Jade Constantine > got a standings question for you guys
[ 2012.01.28 17:32:28 ] Snake O'Donell > GA
[ 2012.01.28 17:32:40 ] Jade Constantine > we've got Core Impulse set to -10
[ 2012.01.28 17:32:49 ] Jade Constantine > from their time in Amarr FW
[ 2012.01.28 17:32:55 ] Jade Constantine > and your main alliance neutral
[ 2012.01.28 17:32:55 ] Snake O'Donell > ok
[ 2012.01.28 17:33:11 ] Jade Constantine > do you guys engage neutrals in lowsec and 0.0 ?
[ 2012.01.28 17:33:20 ] Snake O'Donell > yes
[ 2012.01.28 17:33:30 ] Jade Constantine > so fair to say you'd shoot us then ?
[ 2012.01.28 17:34:03 ] Snake O'Donell > we will shoot anyone we want m8
[ 2012.01.28 17:34:07 ] Jade Constantine > okay
[ 2012.01.28 17:34:20 ] Jade Constantine > I'll just make your alliance -10 then inherited from Core impulse settings
[ 2012.01.28 17:34:36 ] Jade Constantine > we just need to tidy up for our own records :)
[ 2012.01.28 17:34:59 ] Snake O'Connor > See theresyour problem
[ 2012.01.28 17:35:05 ] Snake O'Connor > we dont keep records
[ 2012.01.28 17:35:12 ] Snake O'Connor > its easier that way
[ 2012.01.28 17:35:16 ] Jade Constantine > different strokes
[ 2012.01.28 17:35:19 ] Jade Constantine > and all that
[ 2012.01.28 17:35:30 ] Jade Constantine > we've always liked to know why we are killing people

***

So from these logs its quite clear FEARLESS are a self declared NBSI entity who will shoot whoever they please and have publicly stated their intention to put up 100% tax Customs Offices. They have shot neutrals on record, they are an organization formed by remnants of Amarr Faction Warfare and Pirate organizations. It doesn't take very much research to look up the history of Core Impulse and the Neo Spartans really.

So given all that is on the record surely you must admit it seems a bit ... well ... odd

For Electus Matari to have them set blue while they are proudly shooting neutrals and lowtax offices in Matari lowsec while now Electus Matari pilots themselves are cooperating with the infamous 24th Crusade veterans of Core Impulse while hoping to be trusted by the TLF?

Its a mess. And at this point I think your diplomatic team needs to consider it has made a mistake here.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Sofia Roseburn
Verdant Inquiries
#57 - 2012-02-08 15:00:33 UTC
I guess this just goes to show that your own preferred tactic of psy-ops works on you.

Let's take a look at what you've said.

Planetary customs offices with 100% tax.

They've been mentioned, but aren't actually in existence. I honestly don't know whether they will come into effect, but we're dealing with facts, not what might come to pass.

As a side point, I'm seeing the customs offices at 2%. I'm not denying that it might be higher for reds, but I don't think that you can cry foul for people setting standings according to contract.

FEARLESS are a self declared NBSI entity who will shoot whoever they please.

Probably. Then again, morals sometimes have to bend when it comes to getting a job done. Associating with people with a lack of said morals doesn't really detract from the sincerity of anyone's cause; it just means they acknowledge that there may be another way.

As an aside, I resent you calling me a pirate, and think you should apologize.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#58 - 2012-02-08 15:29:08 UTC
Sofia Roseburn wrote:
Let's take a look at what you've said.Planetary customs offices with 100% tax.
They've been mentioned, but aren't actually in existence. I honestly don't know whether they will come into effect, but we're dealing with facts, not what might come to pass.


Well I have taken your alliance members comments in local to be factual. If you are now telling me they were simply lying in local then so be it. But I imagine that means any future commetary from your alliance should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Sofia Roseburn wrote:
FEARLESS are a self declared NBSI entity who will shoot whoever they please.
Probably. Then again, morals sometimes have to bend when it comes to getting a job done. Associating with people with a lack of said morals doesn't really detract from the sincerity of anyone's cause; it just means they acknowledge that there may be another way.


Again I simply reference the statement from your own leadership in response to a question I asked directly. I don't think anybody seriously questions the factual reality of the policy.

Where there is a question of sincerity here is that some members of one organization have accused members of another of "criminality and piracy" due to certain on the record activities. These accusations have led to one organization setting another red. Now it alleged that similar activities are simply ignored with a blind eye when it is politically convenient involving a third organization. Personally, I find the accusation "HYPOCRISY!" to be an overused one on these forums. But in this case I can see why people might find it appropriate.

Sofia Roseburn wrote:
As an aside, I resent you calling me a pirate, and think you should apologize.


Were I in your shoes and walking in the company of Core Impulse and Neo Spartan veterans I'd endeavour to grow a thicker skin Sofia.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Sofia Roseburn
Verdant Inquiries
#59 - 2012-02-08 17:09:37 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Well I have taken your alliance members comments in local to be factual. If you are now telling me they were simply lying in local then so be it. But I imagine that means any future commetary from your alliance should be taken with a pinch of salt.


Personally I take all local communications with anyone, especially war targets, with a fistful. Can't fault you for your naivety though.

Jade Constantine wrote:
Again I simply reference the statement from your own leadership in response to a question I asked directly. I don't think anybody seriously questions the factual reality of the policy.

Where there is a question of sincerity here is that some members of one organization have accused members of another of "criminality and piracy" due to certain on the record activities. These accusations have led to one organization setting another red. Now it alleged that similar activities are simply ignored with a blind eye when it is politically convenient involving a third organization. Personally, I find the accusation "HYPOCRISY!" to be an overused one on these forums. But in this case I can see why people might find it appropriate.


I don't think we've ever denied being hypocrites, but then again we're not bound by such a strict set of morals. Nobody can really say that politic is a clean business though, there's always going to be someone on the receiving end. If Electus Matari want to associate themselves with the lesser of two evils though, then that's their prerogative.

Jade Constantine wrote:
Were I in your shoes and walking in the company of Core Impulse and Neo Spartan veterans I'd endeavour to grow a thicker skin Sofia.


Grow a thicker skin and become a crusty old fusspot? I don't think so. You're mistaking faux offense for something more. I'm aware that we both do what needs to be done to get the job finished.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#60 - 2012-02-08 17:43:36 UTC
Sofia Roseburn wrote:
Personally I take all local communications with anyone, especially war targets, with a fistful. Can't fault you for your naivety though.


Well when an organization's communications output becomes "lol we werr jus trolling dogg!" one would hope that third parties would learn to question the reliability of that organization's negotiation stance in general.

Sofia Roseburn wrote:
I don't think we've ever denied being hypocrites, but then again we're not bound by such a strict set of morals. Nobody can really say that politic is a clean business though, there's always going to be someone on the receiving end. If Electus Matari want to associate themselves with the lesser of two evils though, then that's their prerogative.


I didn't actually suggest you were hypocrites. As for Electus Matari, well they now should understand with whom they have been working and will doubtless reach the decision that is correct for them.

Sofia Roseburn wrote:
Grow a thicker skin and become a crusty old fusspot? I don't think so. You're mistaking faux offense for something more. I'm aware that we both do what needs to be done to get the job finished.


Oh you were "trolling" again. I see. Sorry, sometimes I make the mistake of taking people at face value.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom