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[Proposal] No self destruct allowed while inside POS shield.
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Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-02-07 09:15:24 UTC
This proposal is simple enough. Just like a cyno can not be activated in a POS shield; self destruct should not be allowed to be activated and when entering will be cancelled in a POS force field.

The main reason for this is unknown space. Invaders successfully defeat an inhabitant only to watch as one of the main reasons for the attack is just self destructed over and over leaving nothing to be looted. A change like I said above would encourage more reasons to pew pew in unknown space.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#2 - 2012-02-07 17:31:04 UTC
Scorched earth is as old as warfare, i see no reason to change it. If you don't want them getting back to POS, pod them.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-02-07 17:51:10 UTC
I see your point but I don't think it is a change that should be made. Denying your attacker of his prize is part of war and also part of the sandbox. If anything I would say they need to change it to allow people inside a POS to target and attack each other including modules in the POS. If you are gonna lose the POS...why not help out and get on the KM?

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Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-02-07 18:31:27 UTC
No self destructing in a pos shield?

Lay off the space crack.

Although I love your tears...thats for sure.

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Jalmari Huitsikko
Avanto
Hole Control
#5 - 2012-02-07 18:34:50 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I see your point but I don't think it is a change that should be made. Denying your attacker of his prize is part of war and also part of the sandbox. If anything I would say they need to change it to allow people inside a POS to target and attack each other including modules in the POS. If you are gonna lose the POS...why not help out and get on the KM?


i see the point of denying prize but it is soon becoming so that any conventional pvp has no rewards at all

currently if you want any decent prize for doing pvp you need to go to hi sec and suicide gank nubbins

in 0.0 everything is nullified, cloaked, jump bridged, bubbled to hell and protected by 1000 man blob on titan bridge and even if you get past that they can just self destruct everything

someone might think there should be a little better options in general.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-02-07 18:52:15 UTC
So people in Null sec have utilized the tools given to them to stay safe? Isn't that the point? Every kill shouldn't be a massive reward. In POS bashes I have taken part in it isn't uncommon for us to buy the contents of the POS from the person we are attacking. Sometimes we buy the POS and everything in it and they just move out. We let them live and they sell us their crap at a discount after they are allowed a certain leniency to get out of the WH. It's negotiation. Where does that players negotiation option go if this change were made?

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mxzf
Shovel Bros
#7 - 2012-02-07 22:22:55 UTC
Jalmari Huitsikko wrote:
currently if you want any decent prize for doing pvp you need to go to hi sec and suicide gank nubbins


So the best way for you to make ISK while "PvP"ing is to attack the people who have no ISK? That doesn't make any sense at all. (I put it in quotes because I don't believe it's really PvP if the other party can't fight back or even pretend to fight back).

Self destructing is a valid denial mechanic that's working as intended. Just because you've trapped someone in a POS doesn't mean you earned the right to all their stuff, it just means that you've earned the right to do your best to keep them from getting away with their stuff.
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#8 - 2012-02-08 04:45:44 UTC
Could always make self destruct do dmg to nearby ships, obviously no where near uber dmg, but given a fleet size you'll think twice about it amongst your own ****. I'm sure there is alot of flak in regards to using in highsec, apply criminal assuming they hit something/one. And no I wouldn't advocate dmg that one shots frigates, but something that pops some pods possibly. I'm sure this will get shot down, but looking at it on a logical front this would be an roleplay perspective of why you wouldn't self destruct inside a pos, or populated area for that matter.

Any way two iskies.

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-02-08 08:05:37 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Self destructing is a valid denial mechanic that's working as intended. Just because you've trapped someone in a POS doesn't mean you earned the right to all their stuff, it just means that you've earned the right to do your best to keep them from getting away with their stuff.


It would result in far more invasions if there was actual booty to be had. I understand self destruct is a viable mechanic. While I do like it as a scuttle feature, denying your enemy of loot, there is other things I do not like about it. Like no kill mail or the hard 2 minute timer on every ship no matter the size, but that is besides the point.

The idea to encourage more aggressive behavior in worm holes. It is relatively easy to build a fortress given enough time. If someone was able to over time defeat the enemy, there should be something to be had. Not hours upon hours of watching the enemy self destruct hundreds of ships. I know you think this is enough of a reward and perhaps some witty smack on the forums is reward enough, but I think there should be something more tangible.

This does not mean your version of the reward is wrong and this does not mean mine is either. Just different endings to the story of a fight. P
Davader
Space Cleaners
The Gorgon Empire
#10 - 2012-02-08 14:41:45 UTC
Absolutely agree with the topic starter. Also, for capital and supercapital ships there should be longer timers (up to 10-15 minutes).
Ned Black
Driders
#11 - 2012-02-09 12:29:40 UTC
I can agree here... but to be frank I would rather have it so that self destructing automatically pods you back to your death clone.
Imigo Montoya
BreadFleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#12 - 2012-02-09 23:59:54 UTC
"Wrong! Conan! What is best in life?

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."

If they are self destructing, that is the equivalent of seeing them driven before you. Who needs killmails or loot when crushing your enemies is what's best in life?
Utsen Dari
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-02-10 04:52:05 UTC
Wrecking your own installations while you are behind a shield seems perfectly ok to me. Receiving insurance for it, maybe not so much.

I could get behind something like this though: wrecks from self destruct fail to despawn inside a pos forcefield until the shield goes down, so that the attackers if they win may salvage them all (or defenders may get some money back, if they successfully defeat the attack after all).
Jalmari Huitsikko
Avanto
Hole Control
#14 - 2012-02-11 11:14:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jalmari Huitsikko
mxzf wrote:
Jalmari Huitsikko wrote:
currently if you want any decent prize for doing pvp you need to go to hi sec and suicide gank nubbins


So the best way for you to make ISK while "PvP"ing is to attack the people who have no ISK? That doesn't make any sense at all. (I put it in quotes because I don't believe it's really PvP if the other party can't fight back or even pretend to fight back).

Self destructing is a valid denial mechanic that's working as intended. Just because you've trapped someone in a POS doesn't mean you earned the right to all their stuff, it just means that you've earned the right to do your best to keep them from getting away with their stuff.


Maybe you don't get the picture. Most valuable loot is moving in hi sec. Especially when you count the dividends afterwards. If you loot 10bil with 10 pilots it's only 1bil each. It's not really much even then. It's pvp because you're shooting someone. If you want some kind of fair fights you should probably go play guild wars at "pvp" arena or something then you realize how pointless fair fights are. Oh and I am not even going into exploting orca for hauling valuable **** yet. That's so ******** I cannot comprehend.

And then POS's. If you somehow manage to figure out these dudes have maybe 10bil worth of ships in large deathstar POS you need first a lot of people to attack it. If they can just pull out self destruct bullshit even after somehow getting trapped after reinforcement timers and all that crap it seems pretty funny all that work went to nothing. You say you need to work out your best to keep them from getting away witth their stuff but that's not even possible unless they just don't log in which is not valid argument.