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Is it better to list 2 or more stacks of the same item or just 1 large stack?

Author
Heavy Miner
Blackout Paradigm
#1 - 2012-02-07 02:22:24 UTC
I mostly sell things that are 50mil or more in value. Is it better to put up 1 stack of, oh idk, 20.. or 2 stacks of 10? Or doesn't it matter?
David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#2 - 2012-02-07 02:35:33 UTC
It is easier to list a single stack. However, there can be a benefit for "sandwiching" orders in cases where you have a lot of competition from other sellers.
Heavy Miner
Blackout Paradigm
#3 - 2012-02-07 02:38:05 UTC
David Forge wrote:
It is easier to list a single stack. However, there can be a benefit for "sandwiching" orders in cases where you have a lot of competition from other sellers.



Can you explain this more please?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#4 - 2012-02-07 02:39:17 UTC
How many orders do you have available? How often do you update your orders? How many items do people tend to buy at once?

Those are the questions that will guide you to the answer to your question.

If you have lots of orders, it doesn't really hurt. If you're constantly banging into the limits, I'd avoid splitting.
If you update more than once every 5 minutes, then 2 orders let you leapfrog them, keeping a lower price more often. But that's 0.01 isk games, and not fun.
If people tend to buy in bulk, keep one order, as the bulk is then more evident to people looking for it. If they don't, it doesn't matter.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Mu-Shi Ai
Hosono House
#5 - 2012-02-07 02:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mu-Shi Ai
It depends on what your purpose is. If you're babysitting the orders every five minutes, then having more than one stack makes it easier to stay on top.

Also, I think some people split goods into multiple stacks in order to give the impression that the market isn't being flooded with a ton of a certain item. Psychologically, it seems that competitors tend to make rash pricing decisions (like massively undercutting) when they see a stack of 200 modules that will have to sell out before they'll get theirs off the market (I always liken this to when a player goes on tilt during a losing streak in a poker game). If you split those into smaller chunks, you can possibly avoid overreactions of that sort from competitors, and keep your margins from crashing (as other players follow the undercutter, and a new price level is determined).

You should also consider the extent to which you could be using those extra slots to sell other stuff. If the slot is more or less disposable, due to your particular trading method, then I wouldn't see the harm in using it to split a stack of products. If you're constantly running tight on slots, and you regularly use all of them to post up goods for sale or to set out buy orders, then maybe you'll want to think twice.

In my particular trading situation, I never place multiple sell orders for the same item in the same station. That's just a personal rule, designed to keep more slots free. If I still have an order up for something with more stacking up in my assets, I wait for it to sell out (or cancel the order when it hits 1 unit) before I put up more inventory for sale. But then again, I use all of my slots at any given time, so they're at a premium for me.
Heavy Miner
Blackout Paradigm
#6 - 2012-02-07 02:45:45 UTC
Thank's for the replies.. that makes a lot of sense and is pretty much exactly what I needed to know :)
David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#7 - 2012-02-07 02:47:17 UTC  |  Edited by: David Forge
Heavy Miner wrote:
David Forge wrote:
It is easier to list a single stack. However, there can be a benefit for "sandwiching" orders in cases where you have a lot of competition from other sellers.



Can you explain this more please?


Mu-Shi Ai explained it far better than I could but basically it's a method of listing orders in such a way that it results in a certain type of response being taken by other traders. The one thing he did not mention is to use your orders to crowd a market and either make it appear that the item is being sold with high competition (this dissuades newcomers from entering) or to constantly update your orders faster than somebody else (as you have two cool-down timers to work with). These are not commonly used, especially the latter of the two. Good to keep in mind though. KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE.
Mu-Shi Ai
Hosono House
#8 - 2012-02-07 07:29:05 UTC
Just to explain that one part a little better:

Basically, one of the ideas behind placing multiple sell orders is that you can use them to create or solidify a "going price," which will suggest a proper price for anybody putting up the same item after you. For example, if there are 200 modules in a given station, and they're all in the one order that you put up, anybody could drop in, and from the looks of it that price wouldn't be well-established. There would be lots of wiggle-room, psychologically, for wild undercutting, or whatever other reaction you could imagine a competitor having. So in some cases, you may choose to split up an order so that it creates the illusion of an established price level. Psychologically, this has the effect of creating a sense of inevitability in a newcomer to that market niche. They think to themselves, "I'll fall in line with the current prices, because I alone am not big enough to change them."

I think a general rule of playing the markets in EVE is that, if you feel something, a certain emotion, in the process of trading, you can bet that others do, as well. For example, when I have a glut of a certain item dumped onto my buy order in a single station, and then I go to post those items up for sale only to find that others have driven the margins down like crazy, that makes me mad. I feel like, well crap, why did I have to get these all dropped on me in THIS STATION, of all stations? Why couldn't I have gotten them over in Station X, where the margins are much higher? Sometimes in these situations, I feel like just messing with the people behind those other orders. Sometimes I feel like buying them out and relisting everything at a higher price. I try to fight these urges whenever I can, because they are almost always reckless and bad for my bottom line. But I imagine other people share those emotions, and the knowledge gleaned from that imagining is knowledge that can be used to my own purposes.
Jacob Stiller
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-02-07 10:50:20 UTC
The other posters put it near perfectly. To summarize, it all comes down to either 0.01 isk games or psychological warfare.
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-02-07 11:30:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Buruk Utama
If you are interested in market manipulation and chaos playing then multiple stacks are the way to go as well. If you have 5-8 stacks and update them randomly then others will think there are other players in the market and complete. Its easier to get someone to follow you down when they see 10 other orders moving down as well of varying sizes. The bots will also do the same thing, especially those programmed to look for outlying moves.

Edit: the same applies to buy orders as well. Better to put multiple buy order stacks if you are facing an active item as it allows you to keep your order near the top.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#11 - 2012-02-07 11:39:39 UTC
Buruk Utama wrote:
If you are interested in market manipulation and chaos playing then multiple stacks are the way to go as well. If you have 5-8 stacks and update them randomly then others will think there are other players in the market and complete. Its easier to get someone to follow you down when they see 10 other orders moving down as well of varying sizes. The bots will also do the same thing, especially those programmed to look for outlying moves.

Edit: the same applies to buy orders as well. Better to put multiple buy order stacks if you are facing an active item as it allows you to keep your order near the top.



And it's even true to RL Big smile Bots have crashed stockmarkets, after all.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Markarian Aurelius
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-02-11 00:45:47 UTC
David Forge wrote:
It is easier to list a single stack. However, there can be a benefit for "sandwiching" orders in cases where you have a lot of competition from other sellers.


I always sandwich them like this so I'm not stuck with a huge lot of items to sell at a specific price if the market tanks to ****. Sure, you can always modify it but that just increases overhead costs and reduces profit margins.