These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

NERF HML'S, Tengu's and Drakes

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-02-06 21:30:15 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Get CCP to give missiles the same instant damage effect that all the other weapons systems have before you talk about nerfing them.

Yes missiles can give nice DPS figures, but that is counterbalanced by the fact that your target is likely to die of old age or to other combatants before the missiles reach them due to flight time, especially in a fleet PVP op unless you're in a missile fleet (read drake/tengu train).

TL;DR DPS+Delayed damage <> overpowered.


It only takes mere seconds for missiles to reach your target, since your usually fighting within 40km or so, maybe a little longer at times. So either your missiles will reach there in time to actually harm the enemy or he'll die so quickly in fleet fights that you won't have time to even lock him, hence negating the effects of delayed damage.

Plus if your so worried about flighttime and your missiles not hitting in time, don't shoot the primary, because if that's the case, the primary's probably already got enough DPS on him so go shoot the secondary


If you are usually fighting at 40 kms why the h3ll do you care about 110 KMs
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-02-06 21:43:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Zyress
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Paragon Renegade wrote:
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
I mean give me Arty that does 600 DPS at 100km range and I'll be happy,


I'm pretty convinced you know nothing about what you're talking about.


Make me a fit that that uses Medium Artys and does those stats then please?


Hurricane with 6 720's 3 gyros and 5 warrior IIs using Republican Fleet Plasma does 560 DPS
Drake with 7 HML's 3 BCUs and 5 warrior IIs using Caldari Navy Scourge does 494 DPS

There's your long range Missile to long range turret DPS comparison You already said you don't pvp at 110 kms, who does other than snipers and they use Turrets
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#83 - 2012-02-07 00:02:52 UTC
Zyress wrote:
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Paragon Renegade wrote:
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
I mean give me Arty that does 600 DPS at 100km range and I'll be happy,


I'm pretty convinced you know nothing about what you're talking about.


Make me a fit that that uses Medium Artys and does those stats then please?


Hurricane with 6 720's 3 gyros and 5 warrior IIs using Republican Fleet Plasma does 560 DPS
Drake with 7 HML's 3 BCUs and 5 warrior IIs using Caldari Navy Scourge does 494 DPS

There's your long range Missile to long range turret DPS comparison You already said you don't pvp at 110 kms, who does other than snipers and they use Turrets


Wel (p), a gang of insta canes fits 0 tank mods it's all res (1700+ scan res) and gank mods with faction short range ammo and Quake to full hit from 0 to 54km, once it pops at the gate in gangs of 10 I can safely say by experience those can instantly pop strategic fits like scimitars and dictors by 3 if the gang fc is at least a bit competent.

Now imagine a full fleet of 250+ with at least 50 of those in and try to figure what you can do with, the only thing same category capable to that devastating power is the drake and it's not because of his uber dps, just because can sit there and orbit afk something and spew missiles all day long (for about 3/4 of the cane dps) while perma MWD'ing thx to his unreasonable stupid tank. I'm all for CCP change that resist and kin bonus for speed/rof and believe me I'll fly those more often because they'll be less boring.

And just for the fun of saying it HAM's are the missiles auto canons, if the guy can't understand that you're loosing your time.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#84 - 2012-02-07 01:48:55 UTC
God's sake. No need to nerf HMLs. They are working as intended. All missiles are supposed to apply linear dps over their entire range. That is by design. It is to differentiate between missiles and turrets. Turrets do max dps at optimal with 0 transversal, making range control very important.

Fro missiles, range is not so important. But speed is. And outside of web range, you can't control your opponent's speed, leaving only target painters as you sole means of increasing dps. Meanwhile, turrets benefit from multiple modules that will increase dps.

I think this is well balanced. Missiles get consistent but lesser dps, while turrets can get higher dps, but less consistency. As someone said above, with missiles you always know what you're gonna get.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#85 - 2012-02-07 06:08:20 UTC
Zyress wrote:
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Paragon Renegade wrote:
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
I mean give me Arty that does 600 DPS at 100km range and I'll be happy,


I'm pretty convinced you know nothing about what you're talking about.


Make me a fit that that uses Medium Artys and does those stats then please?


Hurricane with 6 720's 3 gyros and 5 warrior IIs using Republican Fleet Plasma does 560 DPS
Drake with 7 HML's 3 BCUs and 5 warrior IIs using Caldari Navy Scourge does 494 DPS

There's your long range Missile to long range turret DPS comparison You already said you don't pvp at 110 kms, who does other than snipers and they use Turrets


How's the tank and range on that? And what happens to that DPS if your opponents close some distance?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2012-02-07 07:41:37 UTC
1-Up Mushroom for president \o/
Tepir
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2012-02-07 08:20:18 UTC
i just tested. Tengu with max skills and max dps ( 6x hml, 4 x caldari ballistic controll , hw +5% to rof and damage) that gived me 800 dps from 110 km was hitting my other alt maxed legion pilot who have hams ,2x 1600 tungsten faction fitted with all bonuses and slave set. Legion had 350 000 ehp ! . So i started attacking my own legion . I was there... with legion... feeling BASOLUTELY nothing! he would need 1 hour to kill my legion! you ask your self why ? let me show you simple math!

Legion with bonuses and drogs have 75 signature radius , 350 000 ehp and AB speed 700 .
HML have 150 explosion radius ! so if i orbit any anchor with speed 700 and signature radius 50% lower than HMl explosion radius im getting 20-25 % of his dps ! on that 25 % remaing dps from tengu are now coming my ressists on legion and lets be clear they are huge!

Now dont say my legion is to much pimped out ! my tengu is pimped the same! i dont see many pilot fly 800 dps hml tengu!

fact is one legion properly fitted and used right is invurable from one tengu... all tengu can do is kitte from afar or get up close and die . IF you tell me he will fit 100mn AB i will tell you i got a friend who is in loki.

All tho i dont support current hml and ham mechanics i cant say they are OP (OP mean they are over empowered over other t3's) Every t3 has its special abilities! thats the sand box all about! Loki have webs / speed, Legion have insane armour tank, Proteus have 1000+dps and tengu have its missiles.

About drake its OP it is! and it will be nerfed/boosted. Its the only tier 2 bc with both bonuses to its tank and damage. And its should get bonus to damage only and it will as published by CCP.

Sorry for long post.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2012-02-07 09:28:32 UTC
^ Signature radius mitigate damage from both missile and gun damage, as does speed (albeit in a different way)
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#89 - 2012-02-07 10:08:51 UTC
Tepir wrote:
Legion had 350 000 ehp !


Now that is OP. Link fit?

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Tepir
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2012-02-07 13:43:10 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Tepir wrote:
Legion had 350 000 ehp !


Now that is OP. Link fit?


slave sety + zet500 in 10 slot + fleet booster legion . Not Op just a normal low slot of 2 x 1600, 2 x imperial navy eanm, 1 thermic hardener and ballistic control . with ofc 3 x medium trimark II

When i had erebus as bonus my armor hit points go to 100 000 + raw armor points and over 400 ehp. With normal bonuses i have something like 80 000 raw armor hit points.