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eve and the market
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Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-02-06 20:20:49 UTC
Chip Flux wrote:
and you are saying that lowsec being unininviting and null very much the same is not one of your 99 problems?
CCP state time and again that they want people out there.
But simple reward is not forthcomming after years.

Take the case of miners then.

If i go into 0.4 space with a small mining fleet, i expect to see something one bit better than highsec, its a no brainer.
Yet lowsec persists with very much a selection of highsec ores.
Why? Because it would upset the market.
loot drops the same
exploration sites are squabbled over, there are not enough anywhere.
faction spawns are not so rare, but its rare to get anything better than ammo.
Plenty more cases of lack of rewards for effort
All in the name of not unbalencing the market


Oh i see what you're getting at. High sec ore, lvl 4 missions, and high sec incursions should be nerfed so there's a reason to go into low(to get different ores perhaps, or run incursions and lvl 4 missions) and null sec(for high end ores, high end rats, high end loot drops, pirate missions, high end exploration sites ect). Right?

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Tian Nu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-02-06 20:23:46 UTC
Jhan Niber wrote:
This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've read.

Father O'Malley about Darius III begging for whelp: “Hows that working out for ya ? I make it 02:21 and all I see is you begging Riverini to get numbers and trying to recruit from the incursion public channel.”
Chip Flux
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-02-06 20:29:45 UTC
Rath Kelbore wrote:
Chip Flux wrote:
and you are saying that lowsec being unininviting and null very much the same is not one of your 99 problems?
CCP state time and again that they want people out there.
But simple reward is not forthcomming after years.

Take the case of miners then.

If i go into 0.4 space with a small mining fleet, i expect to see something one bit better than highsec, its a no brainer.
Yet lowsec persists with very much a selection of highsec ores.
Why? Because it would upset the market.
loot drops the same
exploration sites are squabbled over, there are not enough anywhere.
faction spawns are not so rare, but its rare to get anything better than ammo.
Plenty more cases of lack of rewards for effort
All in the name of not unbalencing the market


Oh i see what you're getting at. High sec ore, lvl 4 missions, and high sec incursions should be nerfed so there's a reason to go into low(to get different ores perhaps, or run incursions and lvl 4 missions) and null sec(for high end ores, high end rats, high end loot drops, pirate missions, high end exploration sites ect). Right?



The very fact that they would even consider nerfing highsec, proves my point.
If they employ the resources to make everyone happy And get people into lowsec,
they recon it would break the market
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-02-06 20:30:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Shazzam Vokanavom
The reason why Jita exists is because of an early generated market around the activity of supplying mission runners as a place for conveniance.

The volumes and conveniance of a significant distribution of all if not the majority of items in the main hubs are the biggest attraction of them today as a result. And they have been a self propelling advert ever since.

A lot of manufacturing occurs in high sec and then shifted to these trade hubs due to the afforded security associated which enables industrial work. You wont see a T1 freighter wishing to distribute large stocks of goods or bulky items through low sec for instance.

Hypermarkets will evolve around the players dependant on where the activty is as a result of the above.

Funnily enough, you can make more of a profit away from them, as for smaller volumes, people will buy locally at slightly more cost as opposed to travelling to hubs dependant on if they view it as more value to remove the travelling involved as a result. Of course sometimes you then have to link the supply of a few items to complete the attraction, but as a result you can profit from this behaviour.

The risk/reward model affording the reason of where people shop? Doesn't really make sense to me, even low sec pirates or explorers etc will sell significant finds at these hypermarkets anyhow. Unless they have found something sginificantly in demand that they can price accordingly for a baiting tool. So even the low sec population will use High sec both as a supply and saleroom. Am sure some go for an element of self sufficiancy in areas, but most effective low sec pilots have a supply alt pilot as far as I'm aware.

In short if you want to have a local Supermarket near you for conveniance you will have encourage player activity to do so, how you do that I'm unsure, but as EvE is a Sandbox with a player influenced economy you will have to in someway change players habits as a result.
Chip Flux
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-02-06 20:34:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Chip Flux
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:
The reason why Jita exists is because of an early generated market around the activity of supplying mission runners as a place for conveniance.

The volumes and conveniance of a significant distribution of all if not the majority of items in the main hubs are the biggest attraction of them today as a result. And they have been a self propelling advert ever since.

A lot of manufacturing occurs in high sec and then shifted to these trade hubs due to the afforded security associated which enables industrial work. You wont see a T1 freighter wishing to distribute large stocks of goods or bulky items through low sec for instance.

Hypermarkets will evolve around the players dependant on where the activty is as a result of the above.

Funnily enough, you can make more of a profit away from them, as for smaller volumes, people will buy locally at slightly more cost as opposed to travelling to hubs dependant on if they view it as more value to remove the travelling involved as a result. Of course sometimes you then have to link the supply of a few items to complete the attraction, but as a result you can profit from this behaviour.

The risk/reward model affording the reason of where people shop? Doesn't really make sense to me, even low sec pirates or explorers etc will sell significant finds at these hypermarkets anyhow. Unless they have found something sginificantly in demand that they can price accordingly for a baiting tool. So even the low sec population will use High sec both as a supply and saleroom. Am sure some go for an element of self sufficiancy in areas, but most effective low sec pilots have a supply alt pilot as far as I'm aware.

In short if you want to have a local Supermarket near you for conveniance you will have encourage player activity to do so, how you do that I'm unsure, but as EvE is a Sandbox with a player influenced economy you will have to in someway change players habits to do this.


will someone get this person off my back, he is completely off topic and using my post to boost his counter
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#26 - 2012-02-06 20:46:02 UTC
Chip Flux wrote:


will someone get this person off my back, he is completely off topic and using my post to boost his counter


LOL

You should have created your brain-fart thread in the Features and Ideas forum area where it belongs and not EVE GD.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-02-06 20:47:28 UTC
Chip Flux wrote:
will someone get this person off my back, he is completely off topic and using my post to boost his counter


Eh? Off topic? Are you serious, he is specifically talking about the market. And seems to making a lot more sense in the process.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Chip Flux
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-02-06 20:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Chip Flux
And this is the best the eve community can come back with?

It is pathetic beyond belief.

This is not an idea.

I played eve every day of my 5 odd years

I have an OPINION

And this is where it belongs, where people might actually read it

Ev|E will always have a market, unbalenced or not.
But the other way around is impossible
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-02-06 21:05:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Shazzam Vokanavom
Chip Flux wrote:
And this is the best the eve community can come back with?

It is pathetic beyond belief.

This is not an idea.

I played eve every day of my 5 odd years

I have an OPINION

And this is where it belongs, where people might actually read it


And you are entitled to your opinion, funnily enough so are others, especially when they are merley making objective comments of the current understanding.

Hate to think what you would have said if I started saying things like:

"Low sec pilot needs nerf to high sec by CCP for the meta win!", that's such an alien philisophy in EvE, never seen that kind of intent and maturity before. Roll (Hint: Ever considered just making low sec more attractive as a choice in this sandbox?)

However, I have no urge to make children cry, so I'll leave you to your RANT.
Adunh Slavy
#30 - 2012-02-06 21:06:32 UTC
Chip Flux wrote:

But i believe that the market is the greatest thing holding eve back now.


I believe you're wrong.

The market could be the driving force to move people out of high sec. What is holding Eve back is CCP's instance on coddling null sec alliances. The easier it is for alliances to hold and maintain space, the more difficult it is for anyone else to attempt to profit in those markets or utilize them as customers.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Ai Shun
#31 - 2012-02-06 21:13:00 UTC
Chip Flux wrote:
I will tell you what i believe players want in their loot...

They want usefull things, things that are better than they have, and better than they can afford.
Stuff to put ship fits together that they can be proud of.

Not another cartload of crap


You will be happier playing World of Warcraft or similar MMO that drops shiny purple things. EVE is not a game for that.
Serene Repose
#32 - 2012-02-06 21:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
I know! Go for faction standings! It worked for that other guy....Chip Fluh.....uh....hmmmm

Oh...I see you're only five years old, and you've played EVE every day! Well, kid. Your memory will develop along with your brain. Just give it time.

Shocked

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2012-02-06 21:32:59 UTC
This has to be a troll. There is no one so pants on head ******** as to seriously think removing the market would be a good thing.
Korsiri
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-02-06 21:34:43 UTC
lol

terrible troll, dude, terrible.
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-02-06 21:50:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Shazzam Vokanavom
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
This has to be a troll. There is no one so pants on head ******** as to seriously think removing the market would be a good thing.


Yeah, it's so unlike the CSMs discussion to remove null sec's dependancy of the likes of Jita: Roll

The Mittani wrote:
The idea of making nullsec more independent from Jita, and a place for civilizations to grow rather than merely flags on the map fueled by endless jump freighters from Empire is something we discussed at great length in May, as is in the May Summit minutes. This also ties into the CSM6 'Farms and Fields' discussions.

So basically it's something the CSM has been pushing for since our term began. Obviously I can't say what CCP is looking at or not, besides what's been made available in blogs and the minutes. NDA, etc.


Or their discussions as mentioned to make SoV structures have more research allocation and T2 to be made more profitable in SoV space by having more favourable mechanics.

Such an undisputable argument that the CSM is for a free and fair market. Roll
Miranda Etxebarria
Transgalactic Imports and Exports
#36 - 2012-02-06 21:59:47 UTC
Chip Flux wrote:
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:
The reason why Jita exists is because of an early generated market around the activity of supplying mission runners as a place for conveniance.

The volumes and conveniance of a significant distribution of all if not the majority of items in the main hubs are the biggest attraction of them today as a result. And they have been a self propelling advert ever since.

A lot of manufacturing occurs in high sec and then shifted to these trade hubs due to the afforded security associated which enables industrial work. You wont see a T1 freighter wishing to distribute large stocks of goods or bulky items through low sec for instance.

Hypermarkets will evolve around the players dependant on where the activty is as a result of the above.

Funnily enough, you can make more of a profit away from them, as for smaller volumes, people will buy locally at slightly more cost as opposed to travelling to hubs dependant on if they view it as more value to remove the travelling involved as a result. Of course sometimes you then have to link the supply of a few items to complete the attraction, but as a result you can profit from this behaviour.

The risk/reward model affording the reason of where people shop? Doesn't really make sense to me, even low sec pirates or explorers etc will sell significant finds at these hypermarkets anyhow. Unless they have found something sginificantly in demand that they can price accordingly for a baiting tool. So even the low sec population will use High sec both as a supply and saleroom. Am sure some go for an element of self sufficiancy in areas, but most effective low sec pilots have a supply alt pilot as far as I'm aware.

In short if you want to have a local Supermarket near you for conveniance you will have encourage player activity to do so, how you do that I'm unsure, but as EvE is a Sandbox with a player influenced economy you will have to in someway change players habits to do this.


will someone get this person off my back, he is completely off topic and using my post to boost his counter


Call CONCORD.
Dersk
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-02-06 22:24:39 UTC
Chip Flux wrote:
I played eve every day of my 5 odd years


I suggest reading up on vacations. We even have websites that help you set them up.
Dersk
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-02-06 22:26:29 UTC
Chip Flux wrote:
And CCP cannot do a thing about it because they are scared ,,,, of the market


Citation needed
Zag'mar Jurkar
Legion Du Lys
#39 - 2012-02-06 23:06:56 UTC
If you want to let people know about your opinion and don't care about the other point of view, then why you post on a forum ? You should be on blogspot or wordpress, and disable comments.
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
#40 - 2012-02-07 02:44:59 UTC
I think he wants npc's to drop epic items.

Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524