Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Read this: just to be clear here, this isn't a PVP balance whine post. This is a listing of ships that are pretty much broken or otherwise gimped somehow because of their stats being badly thought out, rather than the state of Winmatar, hybrids or whatever else. These are simple changes that can be done in a short time on the next big balance overhaul, and will make more ships viable.

Omen
Problem: gimped on both PG and CPU, getting a competitive fit out of it even with maxed out skills is difficult.
Solution: PG and CPU buff, to the point where it can comfortably mount MWD+HPLs+800mm plate or MWD+FPLs+1600mm plate.

Maller
Problem: It's a useless, inflexible brick.
Solution: Give it a 25m3 drone bay. This may not fix the ship as a whole, but it's a damn good start.

Caracal
Problem: Horrible power grid, relegating it to an anti-frigate role that it does barely better than a destroyer.
Solution: PG buff, to the point where it can comfortably mount HMLs+LSE+MWD.

Thorax
Problem: Not as bad as the above two, but the grid is still pretty poor for a cruiser of this tier.
Solution: Small PG buff, to the point where it can comfortably mount electrons+1600mm plate+MWD, or ions+800mm plate+MWD. It's completely absurd that with maxed out fitting skills it's still 4% over on grid for a basic armour fit.

Executioner, Slasher, Condor, Atron
Problem: Gimped in slots and fitting stats by the arbitrarl lolfest known as the tier system.
Solution: Add two slots to each ship (varying between mids and lows, depending on race) and the PG/CPU to make use of them. Additionally, buff their base HP to acceptable levels. They still have less offensive ability than their upper tier counterparts, but are faster, more agile and (with the aformentioned change) can survive someone looking at them funny.

Breacher
Problem: Why does this ship have 1 less slot than every other one in its tier? This is only furthering my theory that CCP rushed out a lot of ships early on without even bothering to properly consider their uses.
Solution: Give it another mid, and preferably another low - and the PG/CPU to make use of them.

Caracal navy issue
Problem: The CPU is an utter joke
Solution: More CPU, obviously. It should be able to mount HMLs and LSE+MWD.

All tier 1 navy cruisers
Problem: They're utterly inferior in all respects, in some cases even inferior to tech 1 cruisers.
Solution: There's really too much to cover for this post, which is meant to be for simple fixes, but needless to say these ships need a radical overhaul on their slots, fitting and role to be worth using.
The one specific thing I'll propose here is to "Typhoonify" the Scythe Fleet Issue - let it pick between a gun based and missile based setup, with bonuses to both.

Make list of ships that arent broken. That's better. While I agree with your assessment, there are more ships that need to be rebalanced, and whole ship classes that are underpowered.

My main experience is with Gallente and Caldari, so I'll focus on them, but that doesn't mean the situation isn't the same with other two races! From what I know it is very similar.

You forgot:

Navy cruisers suck. Cruisers class in general sucks, and they're not much used like battlecruisers, and they should be used more. Example Navy Exequror vs. Brutix or Navy Caracal and navy osprey vs drake. Yes slightly better stuff in this game tend to cost quite more, that's how the game works, but is navy exequror any better than brutix at all? or navy caracal any better than drake? And they cost much more!

Battlecruisers are in general OP, not only cruisers and navy cruisers, but HACs and pirate cruisers are completely overshadowed by them too!

If you have to QQ this much about a list of ships that you suck at flying, you're doing it wrong bro.

The Thorax-class Cruiser in the hands of even a moderately skilled pilot can be turned into a solo pwnmobile if FIT PROPERLY.

Stop EFT warrioring, and actually learn to fit your ships through trial/error. It works better.

There is a lot of broken stuff that is being reworked. Takes time.

So stop stomping your foot and be patient.

the Maller is fine. But one you left out of there is the bellicose and Fleet issue Scythe. I fly mostly minmatar so that's why I only stated this race but I think almost all of the E-War Cruiser are bad (save the blackbird)

Why should all the ships be perfectly on the same level? I think it should be more like rock, paper, scissors. And as pilot of a "paper"-ship you should learn to decide to better run or fight, depending on the enemy´s ship is made of rocks or scissors.

And if there is a ship which is better than all of the others, feel free to fly it, no one forces you to fly a weak ship...

You mean besides being utterly worthless for everything except bait? And it's not even much good at that, because everyone with any experience knows it's bait.
In actual combat it's a brick with pathetic DPS, no drones, and no EWAR ability, making it dead weight.

^ That all looks pretty reasonable to me.
The Prophecy is an excellent example, as it's the only tier 1 BC I'd really call "broken". If it had a damage bonus, it'd obsolete the Harbinger. What it needs is a seperate niché. One good suggestion I've seen is turning the Maller and Prophecy into HAM ships, to give Amarr a bit more variety besides laser ship after laser ship.

(Oh also - the Tristan should really be on that list. Awesome little frigate)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Omen, Maller or Thorax.

Navy Vexor's are also quite useful.

I don't have any problems fitting any of these ships, the Thorax (without fittings mods) works just fine with Ions and can quite literally rapeface in the hands of a competant pilot. The Maller can boast an amazing tank with off-racial guns, and with slaves can reach over 100k EHP; and the Omen has amazing damage potential with an 800mm plate for tank.

You can also use Navy Vexor's as a mini-Ishtar with success if you know what your doing- I'm not saying that you whining about PvP imbalance, it seems to me your looking at this game with less then Ideal skills for flying these ships (read: Train Advanced Weapon Upgrades V, use ACRs, thank me later).

more about balancing i support the idea of changing ships to make them different instead of tiered.

an example would be for example on battlecruisers to make 1 active tanked and the other passive tanked, but both being equals power wise.

for example
Ferox = get slots to be comparable to a drake and c hange the tank to active.

on cruisers:
caracal make it active tanked
moa passive tanked
osprey (this is a support ship it already has a different role)
blackbird (different role already)
balance slots among those ships

Harbinger: make it active tanked
prophecy: add enough slots to balance it with harbinger.

will update properly when i get back on...