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Mach or Varg
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Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-01-21 02:41:37 UTC
Cormallin wrote:
Picked up a Vargur few days ago and havent looked back, less dps than a Mach but more tank and less problems with tracking its also alot more forgiving.

care to share your fit?
Cormallin
Horizon Security
#22 - 2012-01-21 02:46:44 UTC
Richard C Hoagland wrote:
Vachir Khan wrote:
The mach does way more dps than the vargur and it's faster as well, the Vargur tanks better (especially against em/thermal) and has lower ammo cost. Thing is that under normal circumstances you don't NEED the extra tank and he extra speed of the Mach also helps to apply its superior DPS faster so it completes missions much faster.

The tractor bonus on Marauders is effectively nullified due to the uberness of the Noctis, the only real boons are increased tank and ammo usage so If you mission in Amarr space I'd get a Vargur, outside that I'd get a Mach.


If you have a marauder, and are still coming back later with a Noctis, you're doing marauders wrong. Very wrong.


Cant say I agree there I tend to plow through missions with a Varg and go back with a Noctis and mop up, the range and shear number of tractor beams on a Noctis meen it only takes me a fraction of the time it would in a Varg with 2 tractors and a salvager.
Cormallin
Horizon Security
#23 - 2012-01-21 02:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Cormallin
Jason McCoy wrote:
Cormallin wrote:
Picked up a Vargur few days ago and havent looked back, less dps than a Mach but more tank and less problems with tracking its also alot more forgiving.

care to share your fit?


Atm i use

[Vargur, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Explosion Dampening Field II
Explosion Dampening Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
100MN Afterburner II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator I

Edit as i left slots empty in eft
Richard C Hoagland
Anarchos Syndicate
#24 - 2012-01-21 03:23:47 UTC
Cormallin wrote:
Richard C Hoagland wrote:
Vachir Khan wrote:
The mach does way more dps than the vargur and it's faster as well, the Vargur tanks better (especially against em/thermal) and has lower ammo cost. Thing is that under normal circumstances you don't NEED the extra tank and he extra speed of the Mach also helps to apply its superior DPS faster so it completes missions much faster.

The tractor bonus on Marauders is effectively nullified due to the uberness of the Noctis, the only real boons are increased tank and ammo usage so If you mission in Amarr space I'd get a Vargur, outside that I'd get a Mach.


If you have a marauder, and are still coming back later with a Noctis, you're doing marauders wrong. Very wrong.


Cant say I agree there I tend to plow through missions with a Varg and go back with a Noctis and mop up, the range and shear number of tractor beams on a Noctis meen it only takes me a fraction of the time it would in a Varg with 2 tractors and a salvager.


It might be a matter of taste, I suppose. I only tend to salvage large and medium wrecks, and just loot the small ones if I have time. If I leave, and come back with a Noctis to get the leftovers, that's time that I could've spent rolling through the next mission.
stoicfaux
#25 - 2012-01-21 03:36:15 UTC
Aamrr wrote:
The Vargur also gets more midslots, which lets it fit more tracking computers. These give 3x the tracking of a tracking enhancer, so...


MWD Mach can fit a web, 1xWeb Drone, and 3xTP drones for improved tracking. Big smile

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-01-21 11:19:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayeshah Volfield
[Vargur, lvl4 vargur]

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II

Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard II
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II


Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5


Change to specific hardeners for harder missions, keep tracking and optimal scripts for TC, Hail versus Angels, faction vs everything else.

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-02-05 00:10:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason McCoy
So I picked up the varg and damn! This thing is beast. The mach is a monster, but I honestly think the varg is better at what im doing, which is lvl 4 isk grinding. The vargur is damaged rigged while the mach has one damage rig and two tank rigs.

Both are sicksauce, but the varg IMO is hitting harder I two volley cruisers, while in the mach it was taking me three in most of the times.

Another advantage to the varg is the ammo consumption, is a lot lower compared to the mach, which in the long run will save you iskies.

Both ships are fun as hell to fly, and its nice to have such choices.

You cant go wrong with either one, but as of right now im inclined more towards the vargur. Also forgot to mention, the varg requires a lot less micromanagement. The tank is off the chain as well. I got full agro doing stop the thief and my shield did not drop below 95% (properly tank and boosting) and the rats were popping left and right.
Cindy Marco
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-02-05 01:21:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cindy Marco
I have flown both, and I prefer the Varg. They both perform roughly the same. I make more isk with the Varg. And that is before considering ammo costs, which add up very fast. I only use faction ammo, which once again makes the Varg the winner.

Vargur has more tank, Mach has more speed. The damage is pretty much the same (10.7 effective guns on a Varg, 10.9 on a Mach, remember that rof bonus > damage bonus) A Varg with 4 slot T2 tank can take any level 4, leaving you with 2 utility slots. If you go faction you can tank any mission with 3 slots. I always take a prop mod, and then a sensor booster, tracking comp, ECCM, or cap booster depending on mission.

However the Vargur can salvage as you run missions. Blitz your missions, and loot salvage BS only. Your missions take the same time as they would without looting, but you get the majority of the value.
Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-02-05 02:21:15 UTC
Cindy Marco wrote:
I have flown both, and I prefer the Varg. They both perform roughly the same. I make more isk with the Varg. And that is before considering ammo costs, which add up very fast. I only use faction ammo, which once again makes the Varg the winner.

Vargur has more tank, Mach has more speed. The damage is pretty much the same (10.7 effective guns on a Varg, 10.9 on a Mach, remember that rof bonus > damage bonus) A Varg with 4 slot T2 tank can take any level 4, leaving you with 2 utility slots. If you go faction you can tank any mission with 3 slots. I always take a prop mod, and then a sensor booster, tracking comp, ECCM, or cap booster depending on mission.

However the Vargur can salvage as you run missions. Blitz your missions, and loot salvage BS only. Your missions take the same time as they would without looting, but you get the majority of the value.
fuk yes varg is a monster for pve
Tyrinel
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-02-06 12:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrinel
But but the machariel is such a nice looking ship , that surely counts for something especially against the vargur Big smile

I'm just bored with the Vargur , but it's really a better ship over the Machariel for pve as the only thing the machariel has going for it besides the looks is 170 more dps if you use faction ammo and 6km more falloff otherwise they are the same dps and the mach goes 150m/s faster with the AB. I know these things have already been posted in the previous posts but also bumping the thread to see if someone can give me a reason to sell my Vargur for a Machariel Blink I just haven't found one yet other then the Mach looks nicer.
myFORUMalt alts
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-02-06 13:30:35 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Aamrr wrote:
The Vargur also gets more midslots, which lets it fit more tracking computers. These give 3x the tracking of a tracking enhancer, so...


MWD Mach can fit a web, 1xWeb Drone, and 3xTP drones for improved tracking. Big smile




The auto targeter?
Never used one before, tell me about its advantages. How you use it. Its something you dont see fit often, Your actually the first ive seen it with.

Yes, I complain about things I don't like.
Tyrinel
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-02-06 14:52:51 UTC
Quote:


The auto targeter?
Never used one before, tell me about its advantages. How you use it. Its something you dont see fit often, Your actually the first ive seen it with.


It's used because it allows you to target an additional 3 targets per module , so a vargur can target 13 instead of 10 as well as every cycle it will auto lock on to enemy ships with in 60km's so it's a quality of life improvement.
stoicfaux
#33 - 2012-02-06 15:06:43 UTC
Tyrinel wrote:
But but the machariel is such a nice looking ship , that surely counts for something especially against the vargur Big smile

I'm just bored with the Vargur , but it's really a better ship over the Machariel for pve as the only thing the machariel has going for it besides the looks is 170 more dps if you use faction ammo and 6km more falloff otherwise they are the same dps and the mach goes 150m/s faster with the AB. I know these things have already been posted in the previous posts but also bumping the thread to see if someone can give me a reason to sell my Vargur for a Machariel Blink I just haven't found one yet other then the Mach looks nicer.

Yes, but... the Mach can reduce falloff a lot quicker than the Vargur can. A T1 ammo Mach that is ~11km closer to the target than a RF ammo Vargur, will have the same DPS. Which is why I splurged and put a Gist-X MWD on my Mach. Putting a slow AB on a mission Mach is a travesty, IMO. =)

The other reasons to use the Mach over the Vargur are faster align times, faster acceleration, and faster target locking. However, the Vargur is a bit more leisurely to fly and considerably cheaper to buy and fit.

myFORUMalt alts wrote:

The auto targeter?
Never used one before, tell me about its advantages. How you use it. Its something you dont see fit often, Your actually the first ive seen it with.

The auto-targeter provides +3 target locks for 10 total (same as a Marauder.) You don't need to run it, since it's just there for the additional target locking.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Tyrinel
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-02-06 15:23:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrinel
Deleted posted , read link on what I was asking
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#35 - 2012-02-06 23:20:24 UTC
It's a small difference when taking into account the faction ammo on Vargur and salvaging BS wrecks on the go. Vargur can live with less pimp tank making it less of a target for suicide ganks. Mach aligns and moves faster (reduces travel time between missions).

If you like blitzing missions, Mach is the better choise. If you like rolling it slow and steady, Vargur.
Rogue Lawyer
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-03-11 22:32:49 UTC
Richard C Hoagland wrote:
Vachir Khan wrote:
The mach does way more dps than the vargur and it's faster as well, the Vargur tanks better (especially against em/thermal) and has lower ammo cost. Thing is that under normal circumstances you don't NEED the extra tank and he extra speed of the Mach also helps to apply its superior DPS faster so it completes missions much faster.

The tractor bonus on Marauders is effectively nullified due to the uberness of the Noctis, the only real boons are increased tank and ammo usage so If you mission in Amarr space I'd get a Vargur, outside that I'd get a Mach.


If you have a marauder, and are still coming back later with a Noctis, you're doing marauders wrong. Very wrong.


Perhaps his aim is to get Loyalty Points. a Noctis used after missions is actually faster than than using a marauder for salvaging, not that much faster but faster none the less.
stoicfaux
#37 - 2012-03-12 01:15:07 UTC
rogue lawyer wrote:

Perhaps his aim is to get Loyalty Points. a Noctis used after missions is actually faster than than using a marauder for salvaging, not that much faster but faster none the less.

Then you definitely wouldn't waste time on a separate Noctis trip, nor would you salvage everything in the mission with a marauder.

If you're after LPs, then you want to blitz, which means you spend as little time as necessary in the mission. It would only make sense to take the extra time to salvage if salvage nets you more isk per unit of time than you can converting lp to isk over the same time.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Dhar'aul
Timberton Holdings
#38 - 2012-03-14 08:19:29 UTC
My take on the subject is:

Mach completes missions faster, but vargur gives you higher isk/h.

Choose what you like.
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