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I'm a Particle Astrophysicist, ask me anything

Author
W1rlW1nd
WirlWind
#41 - 2012-02-04 00:49:41 UTC

Something I've often wondered about maybe you can answer:

Introduction:
Water will instantly boil if exposed to a near vacuum at room temperature [I confirmed this with a vacuum chamber] since low air pressure reduces the boiling point of water. BUT outer space is generally considered to be freezing cold unless exposed to direct sunlight at an orbit distance lets say like Earth orbit.

Question:
So in a near-'complete' vacuum of space, what would happen if I opened a plastic bottle of water while floating extra-vehicular in a space suit-- [assuming the water in the bottle was kept heated to room temperture till the moment I unscrewed the top].

a) would the water instantly boil, then as the whole system loses thermal energy it would freeze solid?

b) would the water flash freeze due to the relatively small volume and quick loss of heat?

c) would both happen in a matter of speaking? Flash freezing but simultaneously sublimating directly into steam?

d) if I was holding the bottle in direct sunlight and not in shadow [which is how I imagine I would be holding it to watch what would happen], would the solar thermal energy alone keep the water from freezing at all?

e) none of the above... perhaps it explodes and blows my hand off? :O which would leave me very perturbed. . . but relieved that at least that It was all captured for YouTube in glorious fail-experiment HD.

Kiroma Halandri
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-02-04 05:28:41 UTC
I have another question to ask

Why are these forums full of so many ******** trolls, and what can I do to get them all banned?
And why is that one dude so always wanting to quit?
[center]I'm not Anti-Social,    **I just don't like you.[/center]**
Umega
Solis Mensa
#43 - 2012-02-04 09:22:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Umega
Why do people believe that Zero and Infinite exist?

You don't plug a number into an equation unless you have some faith in that number's honesty.

Zero is nothing, therefor it can not even be a number. There is not a number (I don't count a kicked over 8 symbol as a 'number') for Infinite either.

Yet these are used by numorous fields of science and mathematics as suitable numbers that they must have faith in. Is this not contradicting and creating false faith in an outcome?

Everywhere is something.. supposed endless accelerated expansion of universe on the macro, and micro scale. Deeper you go inward, you guys start creating dimensions.. which is pretty much creating a house in a house in a house in a house.. oh look! yet another new particle that might exist..

Infinite. Yet why and how is something that is Infinite.. expanding?

Better yet, toss a Zero into the mix.. and Infinite vanishes completely. Only Zero remains.

Where the hell does Zero come from anyway.. if everytwhere/thing is something, even if it is mere quantum fluxies.

I don't want dictionary definitions of the words.. that is absolutely irrelevent without proof of them actually being Real aspects of physical laws. I get if I ate an apple, I have zero apples.. but the energy of the apple still exists and all that entropy crap.. I get that. So how does one actually prove Zero exists?

How does one prove infinite exists when claim of an Expanding Universe? Simply chuck extra dimensions into the mix that go on endlessly? Puke. I'd punch my wall at the frustration of this.. tiny.. problem our math has created, but I know that I might break bones, living in a limited 4d world and all.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#44 - 2012-02-04 12:31:56 UTC
Tsadkiel wrote:
Lutz Major wrote:
What's your thesis about?


i'm hunting for Gamma Ray Bursts using HAWC!

BAM!


Cool stuff. Cool
Scha'ampi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-02-04 14:20:04 UTC
Q:
Why is the Higgs-Boson (considering it exists) required to give mass to other fundamental particles (e.g. electrons)?
Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#46 - 2012-02-04 21:39:02 UTC
W1rlW1nd wrote:

Something I've often wondered about maybe you can answer:

Introduction:
Water will instantly boil if exposed to a near vacuum at room temperature [I confirmed this with a vacuum chamber] since low air pressure reduces the boiling point of water. BUT outer space is generally considered to be freezing cold unless exposed to direct sunlight at an orbit distance lets say like Earth orbit.

Question:
So in a near-'complete' vacuum of space, what would happen if I opened a plastic bottle of water while floating extra-vehicular in a space suit-- [assuming the water in the bottle was kept heated to room temperture till the moment I unscrewed the top].

a) would the water instantly boil, then as the whole system loses thermal energy it would freeze solid?

b) would the water flash freeze due to the relatively small volume and quick loss of heat?

c) would both happen in a matter of speaking? Flash freezing but simultaneously sublimating directly into steam?

d) if I was holding the bottle in direct sunlight and not in shadow [which is how I imagine I would be holding it to watch what would happen], would the solar thermal energy alone keep the water from freezing at all?

e) none of the above... perhaps it explodes and blows my hand off? :O which would leave me very perturbed. . . but relieved that at least that It was all captured for YouTube in glorious fail-experiment HD.


Contrary to the hollywood scenes of people instantly freezing to death when exposed to the vacuum of space you wouldn't actually die instantly. You could actually live for about 90 seconds. It won't be a happy 90 seconds as your blood would start to boil, your nose, mouth, and eyes would freeze as the moisture instantly evaporates, you would get a major instant sunburn and you would quickly lose consciousness but your whole body won't freeze instantly.

Your body not freezing instantly is due not to your body generating its own heat but due to the fact that space has very low density so there is no heat transfer by conduction/convection but only by radiation. Space is actually very hot but due to the low heat transfer it's temperature is cold. This is why spacecraft have such extremes in surface temperature between areas exposed to sunlight and shadow.

As for the water bottle (assuming instant cap removal):
The water would instantly start to boil since the pressure difference (assuming standard atmospheric pressure inside the bottle) is much greater than the "zero" pressure of space. This rapid boiling would cause the liquid to lose a lot of heat very quickly through evaporation. Since the mass flow out of the water bottle would most likely be supersonic (assuming as I'm too lazy to do calculations on a Saturday) the mass flow rate would reach a maximum, choking the flow. I don't know how long this would take but it could result in (a) all the liquid evaporates into gas and the bottle is left empty or (b) some of the liquid is frozen in the bottle which will remain until exposed to sunlight where it will sublimate.

A closed water bottle might remain in the liquid state(assuming it's exposed to sunlight) as the water and plastic bottle would absorb some solar energy. I would have to look up the blackbody absorption values for water and the plastic but again too lazy for a Saturday. I don't think the bottle would explode in your hand as it shouldn't absorb enough energy to cause a significant portion to evaporate (increasing the pressure) and rupture the bottle but removing the cap in either situation would cause it become a mini rocket engine and probably send you spinning out of control.

If it was left in shadow it would take a few minutes to freeze solid.

Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#47 - 2012-02-04 21:49:15 UTC
Amaroq Dricaldari wrote:
Did you know that my bedroom is now irradiated with Alpha Particles?

It all happened when my Smoke Detector broke.

You see, Smoke Detectors work by shooting Alpha Particles around inside themselves (they contain Americium 241), and that allows the air within them to conduct electricity. Thus, when Smoke enters the Smoke Detector, it blocks the Alpha Particles, thus breaking the circuit, thus causing the alarm to go off.

My smoke detector went off for no reason what so ever a few months ago, and now it is hanging from the cieling by its cable. And thus, there are now enough Alpha Particles in my room to conduct the Static Electricity between two halves of a bandaid package, but nowhere near enough to kill me.

But I do hope that it isn't enough to give me cancer either.

Considering Alpha particles can be stopped by a sheet of paper I think you are fine but you might want to open a window or something Blink
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-02-04 23:13:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
W1rlW1nd wrote:

Something I've often wondered about maybe you can answer:



Variables might include 1. the volume of water being expelled 2. the size of the orifice it is being expelled through and 3. the duration of the explosive decompression. Since a bottle of water is very low volume, i would surmise that an instantaneous explosive decompression would create both fizz and a fine mist as it exited, resulting in either an empty water bottle or an exploding water bottle. Ice crystals would be a likely outcome, but do to the low volume and instantaneous decompression there should not be a frozen block inside of the water bottle.


My best guess.
Lets see what Mr Astrophysics has to say Big smile

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-02-04 23:15:27 UTC
My Question:




If a vacuum is nothing, how can a charge be conveyed through it and impart force onto a second charged particle?

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2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#50 - 2012-02-04 23:27:45 UTC
One thing I have learned by explaining things to other people in the field I studied was that it also increases your understanding, if you can explain to someone who is ignorant or simply does not know, it makes you understand it better as well. It is a great tool for learning that many people overlook and it also helps you to remember things better especially in the longrun.
Tsadkiel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-02-05 00:52:21 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
At what distance from the Sun would you be able to cook egg on the hull of a spaceship?


wow! lots of good questions! sorry for the late responses, today was busy and i just got back in. anyway, onwards to eggs!

information on eggs taken from
here!

suppose our egg has a specific heat capacity of 3.1 J g^-1 K^-1

suppose our egg has a mass of 71g (it's a
Jumbo egg
and we are hungry!)

suppose we want to eat it at a nice temperature of 125 C or 398 K and
the egg starts chilled
at 4 C or 277 K

the energy required to fry our egg is now just m*c*(Tf - Ti) or 23,632 J

and suppose we want to do this in 4 minutes or 240 seconds

so our egg requires about 111 J/s or Watts of power.

now, there are a lot of variables in the whole "hull of a spaceship" bit, so lets suppose our egg is just floating in space, and that it doesn't have an albedo and fully absorbs all forms of electromagnetic radiation (tall order i know, but hey, i don't have a lot to work with here). to calculate the distance from the sun our egg needs to be to fry in 4 minutes, we need to calculate the absolute intensity, which is...

I = P/(4*pi*R^2)

where P is the absolute power emitted by the sun and R is the distance we want to calculate.

I is the power radiated per square meter. neglecting all the other interesting bits, our egg with then absorb energy based on its crossectional area with respect to the sun. if we multiply I by the area of our egg, that will give us the power absorbed by the egg, or 111 J/s. just holding up my hands i would say that the average fried egg has a radius of about 3" or .0762m. if we assume it's circular this gives us an area of .0182m^2. now it's easy!

Pegg = Isun*Aegg = (Psun * Aegg)/(4*pi*R^2)

solving for R^2 we get

R = sqrt( (Psun*Aegg)/(Pegg*4*pi) )

which comes to R = 7.22 x 10^10 m, or in more meaningful units, .4845 AU. an AU is an Astronomical Unit and is defined as the distance from the sun to the earth. to put this in perspective, this is a bit past Mercury (.39 AU) and well before Venus (.72 AU)

hope this helps with your future egg frying plans ;)
Tsadkiel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-02-05 00:58:43 UTC
Arcosian wrote:
W1rlW1nd wrote:

Something I've often wondered about maybe you can answer:

Introduction:
Water will instantly boil if exposed to a near vacuum at room temperature [I confirmed this with a vacuum chamber] since low air pressure reduces the boiling point of water. BUT outer space is generally considered to be freezing cold unless exposed to direct sunlight at an orbit distance lets say like Earth orbit.

Question:
So in a near-'complete' vacuum of space, what would happen if I opened a plastic bottle of water while floating extra-vehicular in a space suit-- [assuming the water in the bottle was kept heated to room temperture till the moment I unscrewed the top].

a) would the water instantly boil, then as the whole system loses thermal energy it would freeze solid?

b) would the water flash freeze due to the relatively small volume and quick loss of heat?

c) would both happen in a matter of speaking? Flash freezing but simultaneously sublimating directly into steam?

d) if I was holding the bottle in direct sunlight and not in shadow [which is how I imagine I would be holding it to watch what would happen], would the solar thermal energy alone keep the water from freezing at all?

e) none of the above... perhaps it explodes and blows my hand off? :O which would leave me very perturbed. . . but relieved that at least that It was all captured for YouTube in glorious fail-experiment HD.


Contrary to the hollywood scenes of people instantly freezing to death when exposed to the vacuum of space you wouldn't actually die instantly. You could actually live for about 90 seconds. It won't be a happy 90 seconds as your blood would start to boil, your nose, mouth, and eyes would freeze as the moisture instantly evaporates, you would get a major instant sunburn and you would quickly lose consciousness but your whole body won't freeze instantly.

Your body not freezing instantly is due not to your body generating its own heat but due to the fact that space has very low density so there is no heat transfer by conduction/convection but only by radiation. Space is actually very hot but due to the low heat transfer it's temperature is cold. This is why spacecraft have such extremes in surface temperature between areas exposed to sunlight and shadow.

As for the water bottle (assuming instant cap removal):
The water would instantly start to boil since the pressure difference (assuming standard atmospheric pressure inside the bottle) is much greater than the "zero" pressure of space. This rapid boiling would cause the liquid to lose a lot of heat very quickly through evaporation. Since the mass flow out of the water bottle would most likely be supersonic (assuming as I'm too lazy to do calculations on a Saturday) the mass flow rate would reach a maximum, choking the flow. I don't know how long this would take but it could result in (a) all the liquid evaporates into gas and the bottle is left empty or (b) some of the liquid is frozen in the bottle which will remain until exposed to sunlight where it will sublimate.

A closed water bottle might remain in the liquid state(assuming it's exposed to sunlight) as the water and plastic bottle would absorb some solar energy. I would have to look up the blackbody absorption values for water and the plastic but again too lazy for a Saturday. I don't think the bottle would explode in your hand as it shouldn't absorb enough energy to cause a significant portion to evaporate (increasing the pressure) and rupture the bottle but removing the cap in either situation would cause it become a mini rocket engine and probably send you spinning out of control.

If it was left in shadow it would take a few minutes to freeze solid.




this pretty much covers everything just glancing over it and all and without doing calculations
Tsadkiel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-02-05 01:16:22 UTC
Scha'ampi wrote:
Q:
Why is the Higgs-Boson (considering it exists) required to give mass to other fundamental particles (e.g. electrons)?


this is something i am still trying to understand myself.

a key thing to point out though is that physics RARELY explains "why". a scientific theory is simply a collection of evidence that does two things: describe WHAT is happening, and HOW it happens. there are superficial "whys" like "why does the moon go around the earth? gravity!", but if you ask why enough the answer will eventually be "we don't know yet".

the other thing to point out is that the Higgs field is NOT required to give mass to other particles. there are several theories that do the same thing, it is just that the Higgs mechanism is currently the most widely accepted and so it's one of the first to be tested (these other models are colloquially referred to as "Higgsless models" if that gives you an idea as to the communities confidence in the Higgs).

so answering the actual question though, i can really only talk math here :(, basically, if you do the calculations to figure out the various properties of a particle, you will end up with a term that corresponds to a boson field that is directly coupled to the mass of the particle (ie, if the field is zero, the mass is zero).

hope this helps!
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-02-05 02:23:45 UTC
I took a physics 101 class last year, and my professor was unable to answer my questions.

Distant Observer A is watching Object C fall into Black hole B. According to my (very limited) schooling in physics, Distant Observer A sees Object C slow down as at approaches Black hole B's event horizon due to time dilation. In fact, the time dilation is so strong that Distant Observer A will never observe Object C cross the event horizon.

1) Does Distant Observer A ever observe an increase in Black Hole B's mass?
2) Consider a super massive star in the process of collapsing into a black hole. At the very instant that a black hole forms, will a distant observer ever observe the black hole absorb the rest of the star, or grow at all for that matter?
4) Let's say that object C is an infalling observer. Will object C observe the rest of the universe's time outside of the black hole accelerate asymptotically? Will object C observe the end of the universe in its entirety in the instant that it crosses the event horizon of the black hole?
5) Let's say that we also have an object D following directly behind object C. Will object D observe object C cross the event horizon before itself? Or will object D observe object C crossing the event horizon at the exact same moment that object D crosses the event horizon?
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#55 - 2012-02-05 02:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
I forgot about This

Water rockets Smile in order to visualize explosive decompression in space.

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-02-05 03:12:37 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
My Question:

If a vacuum is nothing, how can a charge be conveyed through it and impart force onto a second charged particle?



Re-post. Come on, I know you can do it Big smile
Astrophysicists and mathematicians can explain everything.

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Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#57 - 2012-02-05 04:02:10 UTC
Taedrin wrote:
I took a physics 101 class last year, and my professor was unable to answer my questions.

Distant Observer A is watching Object C fall into Black hole B. According to my (very limited) schooling in physics, Distant Observer A sees Object C slow down as at approaches Black hole B's event horizon due to time dilation. In fact, the time dilation is so strong that Distant Observer A will never observe Object C cross the event horizon.

1) Does Distant Observer A ever observe an increase in Black Hole B's mass?
2) Consider a super massive star in the process of collapsing into a black hole. At the very instant that a black hole forms, will a distant observer ever observe the black hole absorb the rest of the star, or grow at all for that matter?
4) Let's say that object C is an infalling observer. Will object C observe the rest of the universe's time outside of the black hole accelerate asymptotically? Will object C observe the end of the universe in its entirety in the instant that it crosses the event horizon of the black hole?
5) Let's say that we also have an object D following directly behind object C. Will object D observe object C cross the event horizon before itself? Or will object D observe object C crossing the event horizon at the exact same moment that object D crosses the event horizon?


From what I understand the observer will only see the image of the object being slowed down and eventually stop. The object itself will travel on to the event horizon and be reduced to gamma rays and atoms. The observer would see an increase in mass as the gravitational field of the black hole will get stronger but unless the object is something like a star the increase will be very very small and probably not even noticeable.

As for the observer watching a star collapse into a black hole they probably wouldn't see much as the whole process takes place in less than a millisecond. The observer would just see the remains of the star (outer layers that didn't get absorbed) fly off into space and in the center would be a black sphere. Once the layers get far enough away the only way to tell if there is a black hole is by the gravity field it gives off, the distortion of the star light behind it, or if it's consuming other stuff the accretion disk/gamma ray jets.

For the observer falling into the black hole they wouldn't get far enough into the gravity field to observe much. They would be torn in half as their feet accelerate more rapidly than their torso/head. They would be reduced to atoms long before they reached the event horizon. If they were able to survive crossing the event horizon it is theorized all the light and matter the black hole has absorbed would be visible swirling around on the inside or the matter would be spit out a "white hole" somewhere else. But there has been no proof of white holes other than mathematics suggesting the possibility of them existing. Really, we can only guess at what would happen as we can't get any data past the event horizon. Who knows maybe there is a magical land full of flying ponies on the other side.Blink

As for the time acceleration part if the observer could stay just on the outside edge of the event horizon they would witness the universe proceed at and accelerated rate but they would still experience the same time frame i.e 1 sec near the black hole=1sec to them but 1sec to them=? seconds on the outside world. This is a theoretical means of time travel but the fuel needed to accelerate your spacecraft to the velocity needed to maintain orbit would be astronomical.

I don't think they would see the end of the universe as they cross the event horizon as that would also mean the destruction of the blackhole and mean there wouldn't have been an event horizon in the first place and everything on the other side would exist after the universe was destroyed(ended). To me that would cause a paradigm but I'm not entirely sure about that one so I might be wrong. Time travel is hard to wrap your head around and paraphrasing Capt. Janeway from the U.S.S Voyager (star trek) take on time travel "**** the temporal prime directive."Blink

For two objects heading for the event horizon it wouldn't matter as the first object would show the same signs as it appeared to the observer watching from a distance. Think of the event horizon as an opaque POS shield. You will see the object "slow" down but never cross the shield but once the object crosses the shield it's gone forever but it's image will remain.
Hans Zwaardhandler
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#58 - 2012-02-05 04:35:46 UTC
Two questions, if you don't mind.

1. Expansion of the universe is thought to continue at a sharp rise rapidly, till it disappears off of graphs, due to dark energy. Now, apparently dark energy comprises (if I recall correctly) 85-90% of the universe's content. Because dark energy is shoving so much stuff apart from each other, what will eventually happen, and in how many years does science estimate this? At the same time, how is "dark" energy measured to be in such high amounts when normal matter makes up so little?

2. On the subject of Gamma Ray Bursts; what would happen if a star like VY Canis Major happened to eventually implode? It is billions of times the mass of our sun, possibly trillions, and stars that are only tens of millions larger than our son go GRB all the time... what happens when that one goes off?
Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#59 - 2012-02-05 04:41:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Arcosian
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
My Question:

If a vacuum is nothing, how can a charge be conveyed through it and impart force onto a second charged particle?



Re-post. Come on, I know you can do it Big smile
Astrophysicists and mathematicians can explain everything.

Well it has to do with electromagnetism. There are various parts to it but what you are asking about basically has to do with a changing electric field inducing a magnetic field and vise-versa. These fields don't require a medium to interact with charged particles (think of magnets) but can still exert a force. This is the same process used in electric motors, electro magnets, electric generators, etc

Electromagnetism also is the reason why I can type this post as the atoms in my fingers are repelling the atoms in the keys on my computer. Yep, you never actually touch anything. All you feel is the electrical resistance (force) of the atoms in your skin repelling the atoms of anything else. This is due to the charged sub atomic particles, mostly electrons, repelling other electrons.

I hope I gave you the answer you were looking for but if you were wanting something like "this physical thing is the reason." Then there really isn't an answer since electromagnetism is one of the fundamental forces of nature and can't really be explained by a physical object or process...yet.

It's like trying to explain how gravity works. We know how it behaves but not what causes it (the graviton is the particle thought to be responsible for it but hasn't been discovered yet). We don't even know for sure what gives matter mass. All we have are theories but with the LHC up and running maybe we will have some answers in the near future.
Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#60 - 2012-02-05 04:55:19 UTC
Well Hans I got a reply but I'm going to give the OP a chance to answer some. It's his thread after all and I'm sorry for hijacking it somewhat but when I see a question about science I just love to start answering them. This is one of my favorite threads now. Big smile