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What is best amarr lvl4?
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Mike712
Tenth Plague of Egypt
#21 - 2012-02-04 15:55:17 UTC
Vaine Amarr wrote:


FYI you cant fit a T2 damage rig on a tachyon fit, not even with a PG8 and both genolution implants.
Satisfied? :P


Yes you can.

[Paladin, Lv4 Paladin 2]
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II

Large Energy Burst Aerator II
Large Ancillary Current Router I

Regards, Mike712 The BattleClinic Team
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-02-04 16:15:09 UTC
Vaine Amarr wrote:
Tachyons are worthless.

[Paladin]
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Energy Collision Accelerator II


Hammerhead II x5

1160 dps with conflag, 1050 dps with inmf, 866 dps with scorch @ 58+16km, drones included. 930/1025 hps vs sansha with my skills.

Oh, and it runs for 12 minutes with everything but the tractors running.


I like this a lot. Obviously a wreck looter not a Sally boat. Do you have a alt with a noctis or do u leave the wrecks?
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-02-04 16:23:10 UTC
ACE McFACE wrote:
[Armageddon Navy Issue, Amarr L4]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Drone Link Augmentor I

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Imperial Navy Heavy Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800

Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Armor EM Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Energy Collision Accelerator I
Large Drone Speed Augmentor I


Ogre II x5
Warrior II x5

1103 DPS with drones and Scorch
786 With Scorch, no drones.
1100 with Conflag, no drones. 1417 with drones
986 with Imperial Navy Multi, no drones. 1303 With Ogres
If you don't like the Heavy drones having to fly everywere then you can change them for sentries

Full fit is cheaper than Paladin and Nightmare hulls alone and you could pimp it out with deadspace mods if you wanted to. Only downside is the cap booster to make it stable, but its not like pressing a button occasionally is game breaking. Im not quite sure if the tank is enough for a few of the harder level 4 missions though.


You have to watch aggro very closely because of the thin tank compared to the other Amarr BSs. But 75% of L4 missions should be doable with this fit. Worlds Collide and the Enemies Abound arc are a challenge with this ship. 
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Jadeammar Khanid
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-02-04 16:29:15 UTC
i really like the idea of tachy's but i have read alot saying they are just eft toys... look alot better then what they relly are. way more dps but the tracking speed is ****, does the tracking speed really kill the dps on cruisers? what about battleships?
Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#25 - 2012-02-04 17:54:44 UTC
Jadeammar Khanid wrote:
i really like the idea of tachy's but i have read alot saying they are just eft toys... look alot better then what they relly are. way more dps but the tracking speed is ****, does the tracking speed really kill the dps on cruisers? what about battleships?

Tracking would only be a problem if you are fighting angels; which you shouldn't be if you are flying a laser boat. In missions the rats spawn at range and in some missions without gates you can warp in at any range you want. This allows you to snipe the rats and tracking isn't an issue since they have 0 transversal.

Start the mission by locking all the small stuff and easily insta-pop them while the BS slow boat toward you. Once the small stuff is dead 3-4 volleys take care of the BS. I almost never even move once I warp in unless I have to travel to a gate. Really the NM/Paladin make L4 missions almost too easy.

There are numerous threads claiming tachs are only good on paper but that's not the case if you know how to use them. If you use the fit I posted and have tracking scripts in the TC you can get a tracking speed of .02994rad/s it lowers the effective range of course but I rarely need to use tracking scripts. Most rats won't orbit you that fast unless they are elite frigs in which case you should have killed long before they get close to you. If you don't believe me you can train them both and see for yourself but pulses will only be good in missions if you have trained T2 and can use scorch.
Vaine Amarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-02-04 18:50:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaine Amarr
I've tried both tachs and mega pulse and I personally like mega pulses better. Not just because of tracking, but because of the faster ROF as well, especially when trying to down a larger group of frigs before they get within 20 km.

About the PG and Tach+T2 damage rig build; I see you downgraded the repper a bit and fitted a PG rig, not a compromise I'd be willing to make, but to each his own.
Xurr
Wasted Potential.
#27 - 2012-02-04 19:45:06 UTC

I disagree about fighting angels in a laser boat. I use a nightmare with a target painter for AE and tachs don't miss often.

I went from a pulse paladin to a tach nightmare and would never go back.

Mike712's post #4 & 21, Arcosian's post #9 and Vaine Amarr's post#20 are all good fits if you want a paladin.


for a cheap nightmare fit I'd suggest:

[Nightmare]

4x Tach 2s imperial navy & xray

Caldari Navy x-large shield booster
2x Invuln 2
2x Shield boost amp 2
2x Cap recharge

3x dark blood heat sink
2x faction TE

3 CCCs



I'd personally suggest shelling out for a gist-c or better x-large booster but not required.
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#28 - 2012-02-04 23:10:06 UTC
Pirate battleships are generally better than marauders if you don't bother with loot/salvage in the sense that they can squeeze out more dps and have an extra perk like speed with the Machariel, tracking with the Nightmare and afk'ness with the Rattlesnake (don't do it). Bhaalgorn and Vindicator can be used in PVE but there's not really a reason to due to them both having awesome PVP oriented perks. Nothing is stopping you if you're rich and crazy. I used to run L4s in a Rokh simply because I hate the way the Raven looked.

Out of the 3 pirate battleships suited for PVE, the Nightmare is by far the best in my opinion. The biggest problem most mission runners will have with it is that a standard fit isn't anywhere near cap stable. Not that it needs to be permatanked as you'll melt through missions in minutes. You'll hardly touch your shield booster on most missions. Until your Internet connection craps out one day and you get a juicy Nightmare lossmail by the time you log in again. You can make it cap stable though, but then you're looking at 3+ bil fit and you're entering gankable status.

Having said that the basic eve rule applies here; don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it. You don't need a faction battleship for L4s and in case of Amarr I wouldn't advise a T3 either as it's just sluggish. If you can afford a marauder/faction BS, go for it. You'll get those iskies much faster to spend on stuff that's more fun.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-02-05 01:32:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Xurr wrote:

I disagree about fighting angels in a laser boat. I use a nightmare with a target painter for AE and tachs don't miss often.

I went from a pulse paladin to a tach nightmare and would never go back.

Mike712's post #4 & 21, Arcosian's post #9 and Vaine Amarr's post#20 are all good fits if you want a paladin.


for a cheap nightmare fit I'd suggest:

[Nightmare]

4x Tach 2s imperial navy & xray

Caldari Navy x-large shield booster
2x Invuln 2
2x Shield boost amp 2
2x Cap recharge

3x dark blood heat sink
2x faction TE

3 CCCs



I'd personally suggest shelling out for a gist-c or better x-large booster but not required.


every time you undock a mission nightmare without cap booster, god kills a kitten.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Xurr
Wasted Potential.
#30 - 2012-02-05 01:41:04 UTC
I hate cats.

Anyhow if you are going to put a booster on then an afterburner would work well with it.
Jadeammar Khanid
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-02-05 16:52:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jadeammar Khanid
i got a paladin with 800 dps without drones, i got "the Assult" with guristas.... i have them tanked fine, but i feel like im shooting them with a drake. im using mega beams. will the nightmare fix this problem? or am i screwed when it comes to garistas missions? it is WAY more then doable i was just thinking that a 1.8bill ship should tear through lvl 4's. at least as good as a raven lmao.


i have another idea i wanna try. i remember in my tengu i could go like 700m/s, the battleships couldn't hit me at all, cruisers could barly hit me. and i could kill all the frigs before they got close enough to web me. how fast do you have to go in a t3 to not get hit in a bs? seems like if i only used 2 slots for 1 hardner and 1 repper i should be fine. might be able to get the dps high enough to compare.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-02-05 19:34:19 UTC
Jadeammar Khanid wrote:
i really like the idea of tachy's but i have read alot saying they are just eft toys... look alot better then what they relly are. way more dps but the tracking speed is ****, does the tracking speed really kill the dps on cruisers? what about battleships?


You just have to be good about killing them coming in or feed the frigs to your drones while popping the cruisers as they come in.
Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#33 - 2012-02-06 01:11:32 UTC
Jadeammar Khanid wrote:
i got a paladin with 800 dps without drones, i got "the Assult" with guristas.... i have them tanked fine, but i feel like im shooting them with a drake. im using mega beams. will the nightmare fix this problem? or am i screwed when it comes to garistas missions? it is WAY more then doable i was just thinking that a 1.8bill ship should tear through lvl 4's. at least as good as a raven lmao.


i have another idea i wanna try. i remember in my tengu i could go like 700m/s, the battleships couldn't hit me at all, cruisers could barly hit me. and i could kill all the frigs before they got close enough to web me. how fast do you have to go in a t3 to not get hit in a bs? seems like if i only used 2 slots for 1 hardner and 1 repper i should be fine. might be able to get the dps high enough to compare.

I bolded your problems. If you are flying laser boats you want to shoot em/therm weak enemies. Guristas and Angels have high Em/therm resists. You should think about moving to amarr space if you want to be a serious laser boat mission runner or stay in caldari space and use your tengu primarily and use the paladin for the missions against bloods/sansha/drones/mercs.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#34 - 2012-02-06 01:38:18 UTC
Vicky Somers wrote:
Pirate battleships are generally better than marauders if you don't bother with loot/salvage in the sense that they can squeeze out more dps and have an extra perk like speed with the Machariel, tracking with the Nightmare and afk'ness with the Rattlesnake (don't do it). Bhaalgorn and Vindicator can be used in PVE but there's not really a reason to due to them both having awesome PVP oriented perks. Nothing is stopping you if you're rich and crazy. I used to run L4s in a Rokh simply because I hate the way the Raven looked.

Out of the 3 pirate battleships suited for PVE, the Nightmare is by far the best in my opinion. The biggest problem most mission runners will have with it is that a standard fit isn't anywhere near cap stable. Not that it needs to be permatanked as you'll melt through missions in minutes. You'll hardly touch your shield booster on most missions. Until your Internet connection craps out one day and you get a juicy Nightmare lossmail by the time you log in again. You can make it cap stable though, but then you're looking at 3+ bil fit and you're entering gankable status.

Having said that the basic eve rule applies here; don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it. You don't need a faction battleship for L4s and in case of Amarr I wouldn't advise a T3 either as it's just sluggish. If you can afford a marauder/faction BS, go for it. You'll get those iskies much faster to spend on stuff that's more fun.



Rattlesnake can be played very well without being afk.

Here is a fit that does the job wonderfully:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/58826-Rattlesnake-Drone-L4-champ.html
stoicfaux
#35 - 2012-02-06 02:04:02 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:

Rattlesnake can be played very well without being afk.

Here is a fit that does the job wonderfully:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/58826-Rattlesnake-Drone-L4-champ.html

Eh, only in the sense that it's a passive tank with decent DPS. It has no rigors and no TPs, so the effective, applied missile dps is noticeably less than the ~300 paper DPS. You only have one sentry drone rig, so your sentries are under performing. The MWD while nice, isn't essential nor all that useful on a sentry/missile setup. (Whereas a Mach "needs" the MWD to reduce AC fallout.)

The missile DPS of the CNR (with rigor rigs and a TP) easily exceeds the Rattlesnake's DPS, and that's before adding in the CNR's 3xSentries. The Dominix puts out more DPS with sentry drones and the railgun DPS is high enough that it counters the Rattlesnake's missiles' ability to choose damage type.

The marauders/nightmare/mach/etc. are more about gank-is-tank. Your Rattlesnake, while striking a good balance between tank and good DPS, isn't on the same level as the other faction battleships and marauders for level 4 mission running.

Also, the cost to fit that Rattlesnake... yikes.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#36 - 2012-02-06 03:25:59 UTC
Paly will do the job if armor or NM if shield.

I prefer Tach's for two reasons 1) they will send INF multy with good fit to ~45+35 falloff=deadly up to 60k=awesome.

Conflad/Gleam cant touch above due to range while Scorch fail in dps.

2)INF haz far more thermal dmg in it then Scorch making it more viable to use against

serps/guris because therm is either main or second best to use against em.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-03-22 20:46:53 UTC
To the OP forget about the guys arguing here (the guy that said that tachs were worthless is wrong and not fitting an AB is a crime)


A fly a gank fit nightmare and its unstoppable. you use it if you want to blitz through missions.


You use tachs on it and not pulses and this way everthing dies before it gets anywhere near you. Imagine multis out to 90K with falloff and you get the point. forget about the tracking as Nightmares have a 25% tracking bonus and its completely negated.

My cap is exactly 87 seconds with everything running and i have never run out. I do have a cap booster but i use it maybe once ever 50 missions and thats it.

frigates up to BC are one shotted. BS are two shotted sometimes three.


Paladins are good strong boats but nothing beats a nightmare.

Standing in for Karn Dulake who was banned for saying bad words
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#38 - 2012-03-23 09:32:33 UTC
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg wrote:
To the OP forget about the guys arguing here (the guy that said that tachs were worthless is wrong and not fitting an AB is a crime)


A fly a gank fit nightmare and its unstoppable. you use it if you want to blitz through missions.


You use tachs on it and not pulses and this way everthing dies before it gets anywhere near you. Imagine multis out to 90K with falloff and you get the point. forget about the tracking as Nightmares have a 25% tracking bonus and its completely negated.

My cap is exactly 87 seconds with everything running and i have never run out. I do have a cap booster but i use it maybe once ever 50 missions and thats it.

frigates up to BC are one shotted. BS are two shotted sometimes three.


Paladins are good strong boats but nothing beats a nightmare.



They have the same dps in usual 3xHS its...

Therefore the real debate is increase due to tracking v 50% (very rough) income increase per mission from collecitng loot and salvagin what you have time to by completion... It is a fine balance. Blitzers and normal runners who are a tad lazy will go to the NM. Also those who will not fly against Navys.. for the rest the boats are equal... perhaps even an advantage of the Paly for Navy and drone missions... (yes I factor in the option of using Noctis as well as the option of using another dps ship on that char)...
OfBalance
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-03-23 17:10:27 UTC
Crellion wrote:

They have the same dps in usual 3xHS its...


Why would anyone not fit a 4th HS in a nightmare? (Outside of an incursion fit)
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