EVE General Discussion

I'm going to guess that this is outside the scope of your goals on fixing incursions - but let me throw this out there.



Incursions in Low Sec (and probably null sec) provide a HUGE GLOWING BEACON for the whole world to see and come down on you.


If you made these anamolies scannable with the ship scanner (and probes) rather than just easily visible it would make the PVP less of a overall risk deterrent - but easily a PVP experience.

You'd walk into a system, hit your scanner, find a site and warp to it. A committed Incursion fleet would have a dedicated scan probe out there (you only need one to find anamolies) - and they can then scan, warp to the one they want, etc. It doesn't provide a 100% PVP deterrent at all, but it gives a greater sensation of safety moving around. In some ways it also becomes more dangerous as well.


The suggestion isn't cohesive and requires some thought - but review this for at least Low Sec sites.

Have you done the math for this really? Because your results seems way of the truth, vanguards do not pay even close to twice as much as l4. Not even in a shiny, shiny blitz fleet. You seem to have forgotten opportunity costs and logistics ... they are not for free in 0.0 and they are neither in high sec incursions.

kinda nice seeing the tears of 0.0 crying but playing in both is so much fun. when you get your panties out of a wad and complaining that someone just tea balled ya and do some actual reading on Sansha and the history involved you realize he is not trying to hide from folks but sending in drone armies to capture more people seeking revenge and GODs work in his eyes that we all have strayed from the path and that his path is the only salvation anyone has within the New Eden.

Oh hold it that have to invole words and not picturs for them ~A~ guys and Something awful to point out the emphasis to the goons while Orphnage ganks those in jita.

Making them scannable sites....screw that your an idiot for thinking only WAR can be only scanned like a Sanctum.

Come on CCP....HIT THE SWITCH AND DOUBLE THE INCURSION RATES!!

I just realized something.... With a small amount of tuning, incursions would be both self correcting, and a mechanism to push people out of highsec.

They are, without a doubt, a draw for new players to come to eve. However, if competition for them were actually fierce enough to drive people out, alot of them would be likely to go to lowsec to run them. After all, they are already organize with a fleet that, composition-wise, should be able to hold its own. Carriers and orca's are not that hard to come by, so just jump your ships out in carriers, refit your orca to a non-travel fit, and go into the incursion. You keep the orcas handy so you can swap for a pvp ship when people come in.

If you build a community doing this, you get an automagical constellation-wide intel network, done the same way 0.0 alliances set up our intel.

Right now, tho, the way the competition system works apparently balances so every gets isk in the end, due to trading most dps role back and forth. Make it where final blow gets the reward, and really make it competitive

TBH, haven't read through thread, sorry if my ideas have already stated.

Idea 1: What if LP was removed from hisec incursions and isk payouts delayed until the mom went down?* A lot of the problem with incursions is the farming**, which leads to abnormal isk inflation (increasing costs of things etc [economic explination goes here]). If you delay the payouts until the mom is taken down in hisec, then people should be more motivated to clear the incursion and move on to the next one so they get paid, and if this does reduce the amount of farming, then isk inflation will also go down since there is only a decent isk sink to counter incursions if a shiny ship goes down in a site.

Idea 2: Another thing to do would be to make staging systems' sites t1frigs to cruisers and t2 frigs/destroyers only. This doesn't remove the farming problem, however it does open this up to newer players who want to be part of it. The elitism of some hisec runners is palpable and is not healthy for the game.

Idea 3: Once the incursion reaches the point where the mom spawns because the system control is high enough, discontinue other site spawns [allowing sites in progress to be completed], so that (potentially in combination with idea 1) players are forced to take down the mom.

*I don't want to appear to want to force people to go to losec to get LP/immediate payout, but something does need to be done with hisec incursions. Not like the current increased reward mechanic is making people go down there, so I doubt this would either.

**The farming problem isn't completely because people run sites for multiple hours/day, but because there is no incentive to move on. What I understand is that most site runners will run sites until they get a certain amount of isk and then stop running sites for the day. The hardcore farmers do exist, however, it's not just individual players making farming possible, but the group as a whole interacting with a broken system.

Keep Vanguard payouts the same just change the hisec payout graph such that a smaller fleet gets the max payout instead of the current 10 man fleet. This could cause shiny fleets to try run these site with less ships thus increasing the completion time of a site and at the same time would allow larger less shiny fleets to successfully compete with them.

Well one quick fix to help the economy is to have incursions only give out LP. People will still make money selling LP store goods but it'll make incursions into an isk sink rather than an isk faucet.


Also there need to be ""noobcursions" something that can be run with 2 to 4 people with the same payout and difficulty of running level 1, 2, and 3 missions in highsec.

Right now people running incursions are either in pimped out faction battleships or T2 logi. So the incursion FCs, who are usually part of the big incursion running cartels, tell noobs that if they want to get in on the action they either need enough isk to get a pimp fit faction battleship or enough skill points to fly a T2 logistics cruiser.

I always imagined incursions existing as a way to get newer players involved in group activities, not for highsec carebears to grind isk more efficiently.

So again for those who weren't reading the earlier posts. The only near term changes needed are.

#1 Force Vanguard sites to be completed for payout. Clear the field

#2 Increase payouts for higher than Vanguard sites.

Bingo! Incursions are better balanced after that. No need to nuke them from orbit as the payouts and LP are mostly good to go!

Slash isk payouts by 50% and double the lp payout

Now, I've not read through all 17 pages in this thread, but having looked at other Incursion related threads it is clear that the mom site spawns way too soon. As this site is spawned at the first time the influence bar is completely blued, then there should be done some tweaking to make sure the sanshas don't lose their influence so fast.

As it is today, we have the agreements between the incursion communities to leave the mom alone until the incursion hits it's withdrwing state. This to make sure more people gets to join in on the fun, as the majority of people who wants to run/try incursions would be left out, if the whole thing could be killed off in just a few hours... And also, the Sansha wouldn't do a full fleged invasion of an entire constellation if they had so little resources that they could be kicked out again 4-5 hours later, that just doesn't make sense.

So, I don't think the mom site should be triggered solely by the influence rate alone.

The way I percieve the mom site, it's looks more like a Sansha reinforcement fleet that will safeguard the witdrawal of the entire incursion fleet, back to Sansha (or Jove) space. Rather then the Sansha commander arriving to help since they are failing so badly (or something)

Based on how you see the different sites throughout an incursion constellation, you see lots of individual operations (each site as an individual operation but working together for the common objectives of the incursion as a whole). These operations continue to be established and run regardless of the influence level, and even though the mom has arrived to the constellation, it's presence has no impact on the security forces or anything else in each site... So I find it hard to believe the purpose of the mom's presence is to help out the active operation, to fend off capsuleer attacks.

My proposal to change the conditions for when and if the mom arrives:
- When the incursion itself is spawned, a timer is started.
- The timer is set to a random time during the second half of the time the incursion is in it's "Mobilized" state
- If the sansha influence (red bar) has been less then a certain level (for example 30%) on average from the moment the incursion started and until the set timer expires, then the mom arrives in preparation of the "Withdrawing" phase. If not, Sansha doesn't deem it nessecary for a reinforcement to help with the extraction of their forces.
- If the mom doesn't spawn, but the player influence (blue bar) reaches 100% during the "Withdrawing" phase, an alternative site is spawned (more on that below).

' Requirements for spawning the mom in low-sec and 0.0 would have to be different since it would be harder to maintain a high player influence over time in these areas.

Alternative end-site:
If conditions for spawning the mom site is not met, but the player influence is maxed out during the "Withdrawing" phase, a new site is spawned in the Headquarter system. This site would be a rendezvous site for the sansha forces to gather up in force, in preparation for the extraction wormhole. It only spawns with 100% player influence bechause the remaining sanshas feel the need to gather in force to defend their new abductees when they don't have the mom to safeguard the extraction (since that wasn't deemed nessesary at the earlier time and during the withdrawing phase it would be too late for Sansha to send the mom fleet in).

With regards to dfficulty, the site should be about the same as the mom-site. Completing this site will end the incursion, just like killing the mom. BUT... Since this does not involve killing the leader of the incursion and his flagship, only 50% of the LP pool is payed out.


Site variety:
Also, when it comes to sites throghout an incursion I would like to see some more variation. Like many others have said before, having more randomness to the spawns in a site would be welcome to prevent making them too boring, but I would also like to see more then 3 types of sites in each tier incursion system. Variation is good.

I'd also like to see changes to the spawns throughout the incursion.
- When the incursion is in it's "Established" phase, you'd see a somewhat medium activity level. Sites would not spawn as fast as they do today. At this time the Sansha forces are more focused at attacking the planets to establish control on the ground and get ready for the abductions.
- When the incursion goes into "Mobilizing", you enter the peak activity in space and sites spawn at the rate they do today.
- When the incursion is "Witdrawing" the activity level is low, since most sansha forces are preparing to get out.