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CCP - Regarding Medium Rails
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Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#21 - 2012-01-18 07:34:35 UTC
The rise of the rail catalyst and corm is happening. (Always flew rail corm, now i have even more reason to). You could lower the PG on some medium rails slightly (like 5%, that's it).


Also, 20km Blaster eagle with null (no TE/TC), suck it x gal :D
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-01-18 17:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Hungry Eyes wrote:
thanks again for a solid blaster buff. the null changes are promising.

as you may already know, medium rails cannot be fitted on most hybrid ships. you will probably notice in your metrics that medium rails are never used. they require lower cpu/pg reqs, and another 10-15% dps.

is there any news regarding medium rails?


Actually I almost agree on your numbers since the 15% dps imho wouldn't be enough, fix 20 right now and take some away after if it's really too much (something between 17 and 20 is good since fittings can change it all the way but 15% will never be enough if ships using those don't get better bonus)

Medium blasters will probably become a little more interesting but I'm still looking forward to see what will be those individual ship tweaking before I really think they're ok, I mean if Deimos on sisi now can fit full Neutrons rack it still has to do some 'silly' fittings.
C'mon a T2 ASSAULT ship that needs to fit riggs and pg mods just to use guns that he's intended to .... wth??
Why bother with that crap when you can fly a Tier 3 battle cruiser that does far better dps has as much tank and mobility?? -AND it's a lot cheaper?
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-01-18 21:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
X Gallentius wrote:
but the Rail Brutix and Myrm are now definitely viable, especially in a fleet support type role with Drakes. Better dps, ample room for e-war in midslots (rsd's, td's, etc..) to mitigate opposing force damage projection.


no. just no Sad Drake has 70K EHP+ and does more dps than a rail Brutix would, which would only have about 55k EHP.

X Gallentius wrote:
Edit: Longer range weapons for nano-fleets. 250mm rails > 425mm autos.


also no. 425's do like twice the dps up to 30km. from then on, rails do ok in comparison, but are completely overshadowed by missiles and heavy pulses.

also, any boat with a full rack of rails will have a $hit tank.


Tanya Powers wrote:


Medium blasters will probably become a little more interesting but I'm still looking forward to see what will be those individual ship tweaking before I really think they're ok, I mean if Deimos on sisi now can fit full Neutrons rack it still has to do some 'silly' fittings.


yep. Deimos can fit a full rack of heavy ions and a 1600 while retaining decent speed. the Deimos is now an excellent AHAC, way better than the Ishtar with logi support. but still overshadowed by the heavy pulse Zealot. nano Deimos can be fun, better than the Vaga, but it gets shredded quickly.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-01-26 21:12:41 UTC
come on, still waiting on some answers. hybrids remain the least used guns in the game, by a huge margin. please make the rail Deimos a competitive AHAC
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-01-29 17:57:51 UTC
and up. just because most players dont give a fuk about medium rails, doesnt mean their problems shouldnt be addressed.
Jaigar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-01-29 20:45:59 UTC
I thought Gallente weapons speciality was blasters and drones, while caldaris was railguns and missiles..
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#27 - 2012-01-30 01:04:44 UTC
I wished I can sit down and do the math and make my own valid math backed up suggestions concerning the issue.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-01-30 19:18:07 UTC
still can't fit rails on anything without sucking. Come on ccp. Either make medium rails do something unique, or make them competitive with scorched pulses and arties
Khaine Beralt
Third World Democracy
#29 - 2012-01-31 11:25:32 UTC
The week of the buff I fit a rail Astarte and thought rails were the future.

Then every other rail fit fell short. Thread op is dead on.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-02-02 16:39:49 UTC
thanks. and i agree, the rail shield Astarte and rail Proteus are semi-decent longer range platforms. but come on, at the very least, rails should be viable on the Deimos and the T1 cruisers.
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-02-03 15:34:08 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
heavy pulse with scorch: superior dps and damage projection


Not true.

Unbonused Heavy Pulse Laser II with Scorch does less damage than unbonused 250mm Railgun II with Caldari Navy Antimatter from ranges 0-20km.

There is a tiny window in which the lasers do perform a tiny bit better from 21-24 km. Rail then win again 24km+

Rails take less Power Grid too, though CPU is worse.

Try it.
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-02-03 17:12:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Uppsy Daisy
Quote:
also no. 425's do like twice the dps up to 30km. from then on, rails do ok in comparison, but are completely overshadowed by missiles and heavy pulses.


This is total utter rubbish.

Unbonused 425mm autocannons with RF EMP/Plasma do more damage than unbonused 250mm railguns with CN Antimatter only when the range is less than 5km. And even then it is only about 10% more. If the rails load Javelin it is more like only 5%.

(425mm obviously do track better though)

With barrage loaded in the auto, the rails with antimatter comfortably win at all ranges against 425mm autos, again ignoring tracking.
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#33 - 2012-02-03 17:16:18 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
heavy pulse with scorch: superior dps and damage projection


Not true.

Unbonused Heavy Pulse Laser II with Scorch does less damage than unbonused 250mm Railgun II with Caldari Navy Antimatter from ranges 0-20km.

There is a tiny window in which the lasers do perform a tiny bit better from 21-24 km. Rail then win again 24km+

Rails take less Power Grid too, though CPU is worse.

Try it.



How conveniently you ignore the fact that you're comparing a short range weapon with a long, The pulse do more damage, and within 12km the rails won't track anything smaller than a BS terribly well whereas the pulse have no such problem and can switch to high dps ammo.
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-02-03 18:16:36 UTC
Nikuno wrote:
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
heavy pulse with scorch: superior dps and damage projection


Not true.

Unbonused Heavy Pulse Laser II with Scorch does less damage than unbonused 250mm Railgun II with Caldari Navy Antimatter from ranges 0-20km.

There is a tiny window in which the lasers do perform a tiny bit better from 21-24 km. Rail then win again 24km+

Rails take less Power Grid too, though CPU is worse.

Try it.



How conveniently you ignore the fact that you're comparing a short range weapon with a long, The pulse do more damage, and within 12km the rails won't track anything smaller than a BS terribly well whereas the pulse have no such problem and can switch to high dps ammo.


Err I think you'll find it was the OP that started comparing short range weapons to long range ones, not me!

Also, I never said that rails tracked better.

But, as I said above you are still wrong pulses do not do more damage. 250mm railguns with antimatter do more raw DPS (ignoring tracking) than Heavy Pulse Lasers with Scorch.
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#35 - 2012-02-03 20:12:50 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Nikuno wrote:
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
heavy pulse with scorch: superior dps and damage projection


Not true.

Unbonused Heavy Pulse Laser II with Scorch does less damage than unbonused 250mm Railgun II with Caldari Navy Antimatter from ranges 0-20km.

There is a tiny window in which the lasers do perform a tiny bit better from 21-24 km. Rail then win again 24km+

Rails take less Power Grid too, though CPU is worse.

Try it.



How conveniently you ignore the fact that you're comparing a short range weapon with a long, The pulse do more damage, and within 12km the rails won't track anything smaller than a BS terribly well whereas the pulse have no such problem and can switch to high dps ammo.


Err I think you'll find it was the OP that started comparing short range weapons to long range ones, not me!

Also, I never said that rails tracked better.

But, as I said above you are still wrong pulses do not do more damage. 250mm railguns with antimatter do more raw DPS (ignoring tracking) than Heavy Pulse Lasers with Scorch.

But you can't ignore tracking, that's the entire point. You claim the rails will do more damage INSIDE a range when they'll fail more often than not because of their tracking. Your post is utter nonsense.
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-02-03 20:17:34 UTC
Show me where the OP mentions tracking.
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#37 - 2012-02-03 21:52:59 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Show me where the OP mentions tracking.


Show me where it states that you have to compound one error with an even greater one of your own.
Artreju Woodsparrow
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-02-04 22:28:18 UTC
i cant fit 5x 250mm Railgun II on Moa w/o Adv. Weap Upgr.
I have Engeneering V and Miss 6,67% PG with only the 5 Rails fitted nothing more... thats really lol.

Even on Ferox u have only 95PG left after fitting 6x 250mm Railgun II's

CCP should look on them.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-02-05 00:40:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
Uppsy Daisy wrote:


Unbonused Heavy Pulse Laser II with Scorch does less damage than unbonused 250mm Railgun II with Caldari Navy Antimatter from ranges 0-20km.




im not sure if youre trolling, but i'll bite. your main flaw is assuming that you can actually fit 250's on something. you cant fit them on anything except on a shield Astarte and a gimped Proteus fit.

Uppsy Daisy wrote:

This is total utter rubbish.

Unbonused 425mm autocannons with RF EMP/Plasma do more damage than unbonused 250mm railguns with CN Antimatter only when the range is less than 5km. And even then it is only about 10% more. If the rails load Javelin it is more like only 5%.


again, youre either trolling or very speshul. you can only fit dual 150mm's on the Myrm, if you wanna retain any sort of tank. 425's vastly outperform the dual 150's at any range.

you have no experience, and are pure EFT-warrioring.
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-02-05 16:05:51 UTC
Not trolling at all.

You are making some good arguments and you might have a point. But I think you are not being clear enough.

For example, just saying that 425mm autos are superior than Dual 150mm railguns in all respects is again just not true.

Maybe you mean that 425mm autos on a cane (which has two damage bonuses) vastly outperform 150mm railguns on a Brutix (which one has one damage bonues). We don't know because you don't say.

Or maybe you mean against certain targets, where tracking might be an issue. We don't know because you don't say.

Or maybe you mean with certain ammo types. We don't know because you don't say.
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