EVE General Discussion

That's why it says in the OP: 26.6% of characters who performed a PI transaction in Jan 2012 had less than 5 million skillpoints.

/bolded the important bit.

1: The cost to set up PI facilities has not increased, this is not relevant as there has been no change.

2: You are talking about setting up PI for 4 characters (which means at least 2 accounts), all starting at the same time and running at near max capacity. That is not exactly your typical "I'm a new player with nothing in the way of ISK" scenario.

3: Like anything else in EVE, from buy/sell orders to manufacturing, you need to start with what you can afford and reinvest until you reach your target production rate. Why should PI be different? They need to learn to think logically at SOME point in their EVE career.

4: The tutorial missions alone cover most of that cost... more than enough to get started and build themselves up to full capacity in a few days.

5: If it took you more than a couple of weeks to hit 10mil, even just doing tutorials and starter missions or ratting, I really don't know what else to say. 6 months to make 10mil is far from typical.

No personal offense intended in this post.

And then nothing for weeks. The profit off that one load is pathetic. Weeks for the second load if all they do is mine. B S answer.

New noobs CAN'T do those. Do not bother growing a brain at this point. It's way too late.

It's just.. what?

I think you're more concerned about your own taxes than a noobs.. and using 'poor n newbs' as your own personal sword n shield to fight the cause that doesn't even need a fighter.

And actual new people newbs should be more concerned about doing the tutorials and understanding the game mechanics, as well as getting some basic, foundational ship skills down before diving right into PI. In which case, plenty of time to be stacking up enough Isk to start up a PI operation. Make easily over 10m Isk doing the SoE arc without even looting.

And if you want to legitamently help newbs.. teach them to train salvagers and dessies asap. And go around to belts and farm up armor plates and tripped circuits.. easy income and stupidly safe n simple for any new pilot to do in highsec to make fast cash. They might get lucky and get a pie boss spawn n drop.

Til then.. Stop Talking.

Unless you're going to explain your position as being something relevent, and not simply a whine post on your behalf.. or some rant about how highsec should be parallel to other sigments of 'lawless' space.

I keeps my POS running and makes a little profit on top. So what exactly am I doing wrong?

Low sec has the same tax if you don't put up your own POCO.

New players cannot even jump into low without getting ganked, so how are they supposed to get into PI if it doing it in high sec does not work??

The original design for PI turned on comparative advantage. Strictly speaking all null sec worlds are better than their high sec counterparts (the high sec nerf). Some P0 items are almost unavailable in high sec. It therefor made sense for null to specialize in rare items and for empire to specialize in common items and processing into P2-P4. (For example the cost of electrolytes routinely runs half the finished sale price of coolant, this means that the null player can make best use of his resources by pulling electros and the high sec player can best use their PI PG/CPU pulling more plentiful water and processing the two into coolant).

CCP then gave null a 100% tax break (or whatever the null corp sets its tax rate to). This give the null player to advantages. First null can specialize planets as they do not need to extract and build in the same place so to minimize import/export taxes. Secondly Null has a flat advantage on processed goods equal to the taxes they are not paying. This means that the price of PI goods can decline without harming the profit margin of the null player.

Since Null has a tax subsidy a price decline does not put downward pressure on the price of "rare" P1s (like chiral structures). These maintain their price even as the price of P2-P4 declines. This puts a double squeeze on high sec producers. Price declines from the fictitious CCP price increase the real tax rate payed in high sec. At the same time declining prices do not mean a decline in import prices, putting pressure on margins.

The end result of this is that it no longer makes sense for high sec players to processes into p2-p4. This cuts a significant portion of the profits out of a high sec operation. In addition, due to the lack of rare mats in high sec this leaves high sec producers making P1 that sells for far less than 500isk/unit, further diminishing the profitability of PI.

Further complicating matters, CCP just rebalanced POS fuels killing the demand for a number of items (Robotics should be at 50K isk/unit in Jita by the end of next week). This is not a problem for subsidized players but is a major issue for high sec PI.

While you can still make isk doing PI in high sec, the isk/hour does not justify the time spent messing with it.

In effect CCP did a stealth removal of a feature people were enjoying from high sec. High sec players are on the verge of riot from the constant CCP removal of features in order to subsidize low/null play.

Who says they can't? You? I might need to grow a brain but you certainly need to grow some balls.

I love the new tax.

Keeps hobos out and keeps my profits high.

Hm, well just in case it wasn't leaked, the taxes here are 15%.

Nothing major (of course the planets are awesome like you expect in null) but not 0.