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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Fix for the gank found! :D

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Honnete Du Decimer
#221 - 2012-02-03 00:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Honnete Du Decimer
It all depend. On sea, battle ship can block line of fire to the tanker. They can use missile of the interceptor. Tanker can probably take shell to top with much damage. Container ship can take more damage. They also can have bilge pump and repair crew inside.

That is present. Many year future and in space, there no water for sink. Ship can have many section for protect from vacuum. All space is for war. It is not like peace for our world now. They make ship with more preparation.

I am have same belief from start this thread. Ships too easy kill one alpha.

PMS [:p]
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#222 - 2012-02-03 00:23:01 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

It probably should be. I've seen some nasty, nasty **** on there.


You argue but you say almost same thing for me. If they are attack, last bit longer but still die. If have fleet of friends with then if alpha is no kill instant then chance save.

So, you say before help arrive. I am say help must be with. I am say now, even if help is there they are dead. Tanker with military escort will not die like EVE.


The reason that Transport ships protected by large escorts are *rarely* destroyed is that, in the real world, launching a Suicide attack is, well, suicidal.

Look at the USS Cole. It's a very advanced, very expensive Warship. It was crippled by a guy in a rowboat willing to die to attack it. The rowboat probably cost $100, and the explosives let's say $1000. So $1100 to cripple a multi-million dollar warship.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#223 - 2012-02-03 00:25:57 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
It all depend. On sea, battle ship can block line of fire to the tanker. They can use missile of the interceptor. Tanker can probably take shell to top with much damage. Container ship can take more damage. They also can have bilge pump and repair crew inside.

That is present. Many year future and in space, there no water for sink. Ship can have many section for protect from vacuum. All space is for war. It is not like peace for our world now. They make ship with more preparation.

I am have same belief from start this thread. Ships too easy kill one alpha.


So you say that you don't like that it takes 25 warships to kill 1 Industrial ship?

And how would you fix it? There are Titans being Alpha'd in Null, so clearly EHP won't do it.

Making it impossible to kill a ship in under X seconds would be an ENORMOUS buff to small ships.

And those are the possible Ideas I can come up with to fix the "problem" you claim exists.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Honnete Du Decimer
#224 - 2012-02-03 00:26:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Honnete Du Decimer
RubyPorto wrote:

And how would you fix it? .


Idea developer are work on is for make lock more slow for enemy the more enemy who target you.

Small ship are should be difficult shoot. Also, why aim perfect first time shoot? Maybe like station we must come through gate already maximum speed?

Maybe some absorb thing? Industrial and mining barge are take 30% of alpha damage only but all other ship are take 60%? Like in build damage control.

RubyPorto wrote:

The reason that Transport ships protected by large escorts are *rarely* destroyed is that, in the real world, launching a Suicide attack is, well, suicidal.
.


So you say suicide in EVE is no enough penalty? Maybe link alts is good idea then? Twisted

PMS [:p]
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#225 - 2012-02-03 00:38:31 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

The reason that Transport ships protected by large escorts are *rarely* destroyed is that, in the real world, launching a Suicide attack is, well, suicidal.
.


So you say suicide in EVE is no enough penalty? Maybe link alts is good idea then? Twisted


I'm saying that suicide in EVE has a different penalty that it does in the real world.

I think that it might be fair to have CONCORD concordokken the pod of the pilot who suicide ganks a Pod (eye for an eye), but then the ganking Pilot's already lost the offending weapon(ship), so that doesn't quite work.

Linking Alts for any reason at any time is a horrible idea.
1) There is no IG justification
2) Alt accounts make it a silly cash grab for CCP
3) What happens when you sell a character (or Xfer to a diffe account under your control)
4) It harms the rich metagame of EvE

You have killrights and the satisfaction of knowing your ganker lost their ship (even if the gank failed). If you can't figure out how to manage your risk in an environment that is explicitly unsafe but has consistant and fairly transparent rules, you're an idiot.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Honnete Du Decimer
#226 - 2012-02-03 00:43:07 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:

1) You have killrights
2) and the satisfaction of knowing your ganker lost their ship (even if the gank failed).
3) If you can't figure out how to manage your risk in an environment that is explicitly unsafe but has consistant and fairly transparent rules, you're an idiot.


1) For rubbish alt. He no care. I no care.
2) For cheap ship. He no care. I no care.
3 a) Avoid is no problem.
3 b) Real chance fight around and defend industrial when have escort are more fun.

PMS [:p]
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#227 - 2012-02-03 00:47:07 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

And how would you fix it? .


Idea developer are work on is for make lock more slow for enemy the more enemy who target you.

Small ship are should be difficult shoot. Also, why aim perfect first time shoot? Maybe like station we must come through gate already maximum speed?

Maybe some absorb thing? Industrial and mining barge are take 30% of alpha damage only but all other ship are take 60%? Like in build damage control.



1) Lock time changes wouldn't affect Suicide Gankers, who'll just bump your Freighter until everyone's locked.
2) Small ships are harder to shoot with both turrets and missiles.
3) So, more EHP. Like I said, that only changes the payoff matrix.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#228 - 2012-02-03 00:52:46 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

1) You have killrights
2) and the satisfaction of knowing your ganker lost their ship (even if the gank failed).
3) If you can't figure out how to manage your risk in an environment that is explicitly unsafe but has consistant and fairly transparent rules, you're an idiot.


1) For rubbish alt. He no care. I no care.
2) For cheap ship. He no care. I no care.
3 a) Avoid is no problem.
3 b) Real chance fight around and defend industrial when have escort are more fun.


1) How do you know it's an alt
2) So? It's a ship for a (group of) ship.
3)a) Good, then there's no problem.
b) Go to lowsec. Escorts work there, since nobody brings alpha. Escorts also work against dessie ganks, since you can shoot them as soon as they go GCC. None of your suggestions do anything to make Escorts (besides webs) viable in HS. Oh, and get a triple or quad web rapier (better yet, a faction web Vigilant) to web your Freighter, and it's going to get in warp quick.

EDIT: Better answer to 1) and 2) Sounds like the ganker took steps (which cost him something) to minimize the risks and consequences of his activities. Why are you unwilling to do the same?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Honnete Du Decimer
#229 - 2012-02-03 01:15:06 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
you can shoot them as soon as they go GCC.


Too late, target destroyed.

Freighter bump. So? If alone - die.

PMS [:p]
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#230 - 2012-02-03 03:06:39 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
you can shoot them as soon as they go GCC.


Too late, target destroyed.

Freighter bump. So? If alone - die.


Not in a destroyer gank; destroyer ganks take the full ~10s that concord offers them to complete their gank. Have something like an alpha Tornado filled with SEBOs sitting with the miners.

As soon as a destroyer warps in, lock it up. If it goes GCC, pop it. If it doesn't, no harm done.



In what way will an escort in HS keep a freighter from being bumped out of alignment while the gankers do the ever increasing locking time dance?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Honnete Du Decimer
#231 - 2012-02-03 09:28:21 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
...
In what way will an escort in HS keep a freighter from being bumped out of alignment while the gankers do the ever increasing locking time dance?


Bump also? Lock logistic? Remote shield boost good idea.

... but. I am think I have most easy idea for programmeur make all industrial player happy! Gate throw random place next system - no spawn at gate other side. Twisted
From that, guard for the gate must stop person reach enter. Fleet already can warp for one person but computer can also record which person are first for jump and put all same place. Big smile

PMS [:p]
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#232 - 2012-02-04 01:07:26 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
...
In what way will an escort in HS keep a freighter from being bumped out of alignment while the gankers do the ever increasing locking time dance?


Bump also? Lock logistic? Remote shield boost good idea.

... but. I am think I have most easy idea for programmeur make all industrial player happy! Gate throw random place next system - no spawn at gate other side. Twisted
From that, guard for the gate must stop person reach enter. Fleet already can warp for one person but computer can also record which person are first for jump and put all same place. Big smile


How does bumping the gank ships help anything?
What Logistics? It's an Alpha Strike.

There have been some suggestions for removing in-gates, and that might have some merit, but not as an anti-ganking method.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#233 - 2012-02-04 01:28:50 UTC
they say it be like it is, but it do
Mag's
Azn Empire
#234 - 2012-02-04 08:38:34 UTC
If players used the tools provided, then ganking would be less prevalent. But heaven forbid they lose that exrta cargo space, mining yield, or use friends to help in this MMO.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#235 - 2012-02-04 08:54:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Shazzam Vokanavom
if players had the tools provided like an effective bounty system then ganking would be less prevelant, but they have been useless for eons.

Mind heaven forbid that gankers might have to shoot something that would shoot back, that would damage their already fragile epeen. Chances are they might simply run away from the new strange noises and ship messages. P

Also plenty of examples of alpha simply used making attmpts at tank fittings pretty much irrelevant with the new BCs.

http://y0ink.us/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20812

And the profitbility from exhumer ganking seems to make the effort pretty trivial as the owner of this KM claims to be able to make a plex in an afternoon from killing them.

Explained in this thread: How to kill a Hulk Solo
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#236 - 2012-02-04 09:00:51 UTC
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:
if players had the tools provided like an effective bounty system then ganking would be less prevelant, but they have been useless for eons.

Mind heaven forbid that gankers might have to shoot something that would shoot back, that would damage their already fragile epeen. Chances are they might simply run away from the new strange noises and ship messages. P


The tools available have been discussed ad nauseaum...

To prevent ganking for profit, make it unprofitable (72 Plex in a Kestrel is the wrong choice)

To prevent ganking for lulz, make it harder (fit a tank, mine aligned, web your freighter, 2 hulks with webs, whatever).

To stop dessie ganks, keep an High Alpha ship (or two) to kill the dessies as soon as they GCC.



If suicide ganks were never profitable and were a pain in the ass and expensive,they've be pretty rare. But that requires more ::effort:: than whining.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mag's
Azn Empire
#237 - 2012-02-04 09:21:56 UTC
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:
if players had the tools provided like an effective bounty system then ganking would be less prevelant, but they have been useless for eons.

Mind heaven forbid that gankers might have to shoot something that would shoot back, that would damage their already fragile epeen. P

Also plenty of examples of alpha simply used making attmpts at tank fittings pretty much irrelevant with the new BCs.

http://y0ink.us/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20812

And the profitbility from exhumer ganking seems trivial as the owner of this KM claims to be able to make a plex in an afternoon from killing them.

Explained in this thread: How to kill a Hulk Solo
The first shows a loss to the ganker and a terrible tank from the gankee.

The second states quite clearly, the limited areas and chance of solo ganking possibilities.

But they did validate my point quite nicely, thank you.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
ShipToaster
#238 - 2012-02-04 16:03:47 UTC
EVE's overlord has spoken. This thread is now over.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=751638#post751638

.
Honnete Du Decimer
#239 - 2012-02-04 16:15:18 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
If suicide ganks were never profitable and were a pain in the ass and expensive,they've be pretty rare. .


"Lulz" 5M is nothing and group friends "Hurr hurr" easy for find.

PMS [:p]
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#240 - 2012-02-04 18:35:01 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
If suicide ganks were never profitable and were a pain in the ass and expensive,they've be pretty rare. .


"Lulz" 5M is nothing and group friends "Hurr hurr" easy for find.


RubyPorto wrote:

To stop dessie ganks, keep an High Alpha ship (or two) to kill the dessies as soon as they GCC.


The ganks that cost 5m use destroyers and thus require some amount of time to complete (since they cannot alpha your hulk). Kill one or two in the window between them opening fire and your hulk popping, and you've stopped the gank.

Logistics ships will also work for this purpose.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon