Science & Industry

I am curious if anyone has set up POCOs in w-space systems that they do not control. We have a C4 with a C2 static, and it seems pretty much every day we have a new C2 with interbus stations for PI. The owners either a) don't do PI or b) don't want to bother replacing the COs with POCOS.

If we do a bit of a check on the planets, we can at least find out if there are PI structures (although we cannot guarantee they are active), and if there seems to be quite a few, we could blast the CO and install a POCO. Since a POCO does not need any support (unless it is reinforced), we do not need to hang around to make any money. Eventually it will get popped, I assume (~125 mil investment currently, I guess), but can it break even before then?

I guess there are two reasons it wouldn't break even eventually:
a) The owners are irritated by a POCO in their system and bust it; however, this can be minimized by setting significantly lower tax rates than the COs and by using system data to time the RE timer to their 'down' time. If they haven't bothered to bust the (non REing) COs, I don't know that there is much of a reason to kill a POCO with lower tax rates that will then have to be replaced by them.

b) Random marauders come in an kill the POCO. This is hard to quantify, but the fact that there are tons and tons of COs still out there would seem to indicate that CO busting is just not that big an occupation. Add in RE timers, and it would make it less appealing for casual griefers.

Any thoughts? Anyone done this?

I would say there is a good chance that POCO's in uncontrolled W-space systems would have very little chance of getting popped. but if the system is uncontrolled who the hell would have an active PI infrastructure there? If they are not living in that hole there is no guarantee they could get to it on a regular bases.

The only way your idea would work is to put up POCO's in occupied W-space where the occupants have just not bothered. Get in touch with them. Find out what planets they use and place them there. I am sure they would not mind if it meant paying less tax. even 7.5% rather than 10% can save a lot of isk on higher tier PI products.

If you just place them in random unoccupied holes it will take years if ever just to recoup the 125 mil you spent on it.

PI is still profitable in high sec. It is that much more profitable in W-space where production is so much higher. Many small corps are not willing to invest in POCo's that they may lose before they even recoup the cost of them. But I am sure most small W-space corps would not object to paying less tax just by letting someone else put some in there hole. They might even help you take out the interbus ones.

I guess it's a gamble. For example I have only replaced one CO. Based on the PI model that one POCO essentially paid for itself in maybe 2-3 weeks. The other CO's however had like a 3 month ROI and wasn't worth the time right now.

Thanks for the responses, they mirror what we are thinking for the most part. Maybe we will go with direct solicitation to start off with so that we do get some high traffic planets. Our initial estimates were 4-6 months for payback (on average) if we go pseudo-random. The attraction is the lack of time required to make that money. Manufacturing is a hell of a lot of clicking, incursions require blocks of time (hard with young kids), and PvP is just not profitable (generally speaking). Mining is low-yield but can be done semi-afk and mission running is relatively profitable, but you don't make money while not online.

As for the "Best way to invest 125M a pop, doubtful", yes, that is probably correct, but there are so few ways to actually invest the isk. If I am not careful, I will just spend it on a fancy ship that will soon be wreckage, or, worse yet, just languish in a hangar somewhere. If we are in it for the long haul, it is possible that some of these POCOs could be around for years and continue to yield returns. Our senior members have been around 4 to 6 years, might as well assume another 4- 6 :). If we lower the taxes enough, the ROIs get so bad for others that it would be a huge negative to take them out. Maybe even the locals would protect them if we give them a heads up when we get a notification; hell, even make sure the reinforcement timer is set for the natives....

I agree completely on this. An established POCO has the potential to provide passive return on your investment for a very long time. The trick will be choosing wisely so you don't endup with too many unproductive POCOs, and you don't end up with too many getting popped by other ppl.

We are very small, and without capital ships, but we popped them all in all-except-one of our w-systems. It took us 1.5 - 2.5 hours per interbus CO using fleets of 2 - 5 tengu / machariel / rattlesnake. We did this as a moving feast over several weeks. It was awfully boring but (IMO) worth it.

All the same, the vast majority of low-end (C1 - C4) w-systems I have visited since then still have their interbus COs up. Occupied C5s and C6s seem to have had them replaced in most cases - perhaps reflecting how much quicker it can be if you can mount a decent cap-fleet.