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PI TAX Change - Taxing the New and Poor, Thanks CCP
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#1 - 2012-02-02 18:36:55 UTC
CCP_Diagoras John Turbefield
26.6% of characters who performed a PI transaction in Jan 2012 had less than 5 million skillpoints. #eveonline
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2 - 2012-02-02 18:39:15 UTC
26.5% were new and low SP Alts perhaps.



☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#3 - 2012-02-02 18:39:43 UTC
and?

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#4 - 2012-02-02 18:40:41 UTC
Profit per hour w/ PI will reach the exact same equilibrium as before. You're wrong.

All the change did was increase cost of the end goods.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#5 - 2012-02-02 18:42:14 UTC
This will all end awesomely well, like it always has. Everything CCP does has been touched by golden finger and will succeed and be a blessed addition to us all.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#6 - 2012-02-02 18:50:27 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
26.5% were new and low SP Alts perhaps.


Agreed. Everyone I know who does serious PI work has several alts they trained just long enough to fly haulers and run a full load of PI. 5 million SPs covers all that and then some.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#7 - 2012-02-02 18:52:27 UTC
mechtech wrote:
Profit per hour w/ PI will reach the exact same equilibrium as before. You're wrong.

All the change did was increase cost of the end goods.


I'm sorry but you are wrong.

PI used to be something a new player could start from day one. Now the level of taxes prevents any new players from doing PI until they have established a foot hold and have several million isk to throw around.

For veteran players the only impact was some mild inflation. As you say no real affect other than an increase in the cost of end goods.So it really achieved nothing except putting one more aspect of the game out of reach for new players.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#8 - 2012-02-02 19:03:18 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
[

PI used to be something a new player could start from day one. Now the level of taxes prevents any new players from doing PI until they have established a foot hold and have several million isk to throw around.



Huh? The isk from the starter missions is well over a million. That is easily enough to cover the tax from your first PI export. After that the income from sales will always be larger than the tax, so you can just keep going and expanding.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#9 - 2012-02-02 19:04:46 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
mechtech wrote:
Profit per hour w/ PI will reach the exact same equilibrium as before. You're wrong.

All the change did was increase cost of the end goods.


I'm sorry but you are wrong.

PI used to be something a new player could start from day one. Now the level of taxes prevents any new players from doing PI until they have established a foot hold and have several million isk to throw around.

For veteran players the only impact was some mild inflation. As you say no real affect other than an increase in the cost of end goods.So it really achieved nothing except putting one more aspect of the game out of reach for new players.


And how, pray tell, have you deduced that the initial start up fee for a new player to begin PI has risen several million ISK as the result of the new tax percentage? It's certainly not the amount of taxes they pay for their first load of PI materials exported.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#10 - 2012-02-02 19:09:00 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
PI used to be something a new player could start from day one. Now the level of taxes prevents any new players from doing PI until they have established a foot hold and have several million isk to throw around.
…just like before, since that's how much the installations cost. The taxes don't prevent anything — they just move the equilibriums around. At most, they might require a new player to work in slightly smaller batches at first, but so what.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-02-02 19:13:22 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
CCP_Diagoras John Turbefield
26.6% of characters who performed a PI transaction in Jan 2012 had less than 5 million skillpoints. #eveonline
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply



26,6% of PI characters are purpose built PI alts and goon newbies.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Commander Spurty
#12 - 2012-02-02 19:21:35 UTC
Poor people and their white knights need to stop posting / writing drivel on blogs and forums and go get a job tbfh

Sickness is self entitlement
Spanking your pecker and splurging tripe here is not the cure

When I started there were no passive incomes period.

Now bug off with your half chewed half baked rants

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#13 - 2012-02-02 19:22:36 UTC
Price of 'safety' in reasonable. Somone has to pay for Concords Donughts.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#14 - 2012-02-02 19:25:06 UTC
Quote:
CCP_Diagoras John Turbefield
16.8% of characters who performed a PI transaction in Jan 2012 had more than 50 million skillpoints. #tweetfleet

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#15 - 2012-02-02 19:25:56 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply


Twitter is for the birds.

Only twits crosspost thier twaddle into shiptoasts.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#16 - 2012-02-02 19:57:01 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
mechtech wrote:
Profit per hour w/ PI will reach the exact same equilibrium as before. You're wrong.

All the change did was increase cost of the end goods.


I'm sorry but you are wrong.

PI used to be something a new player could start from day one. Now the level of taxes prevents any new players from doing PI until they have established a foot hold and have several million isk to throw around.

For veteran players the only impact was some mild inflation. As you say no real affect other than an increase in the cost of end goods.So it really achieved nothing except putting one more aspect of the game out of reach for new players.


And how, pray tell, have you deduced that the initial start up fee for a new player to begin PI has risen several million ISK as the result of the new tax percentage? It's certainly not the amount of taxes they pay for their first load of PI materials exported.


To run level 3 PI takes only a few hours of skill training. the cost of the command center+level 3 upgrade + the facilities needed to set up the planet is a large investment for a new player. Only to find out that they can not afford to export the commodities made on the planet until they have grinded even more isk.

I do most of my PI in high sec. 4 characters with level 4 skills on all of them. I spend upwards of 5 mil per character on import/export taxes to cycle the 5 planets they run which is usually once a week. (not counting daily extractor resets which cost nothing) the costs are high enough that if I did not have a POS to fuel I would not be doing PI at all. If the costs were this high when I started PI I would not have bothered. The profits are about the same as they were before. But the investment is much higher.

For a new player 1 million dollars is a lot of money. Very few will spend the first few millions they make on setting up PI if the initial investment is so much higher than the returns. I was playing EVE for 6 months before I ever reached 10 mil isk on my first account.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-02-02 19:59:41 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
26.5% were new and low SP Alts perhaps.


Agreed. Everyone I know who does serious PI work has several alts they trained just long enough to fly haulers and run a full load of PI. 5 million SPs covers all that and then some.


I find 10d of training more than sufficient to get what I need from an Alt. Waaay less than 5 million SP.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-02-02 20:01:28 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
mechtech wrote:
Profit per hour w/ PI will reach the exact same equilibrium as before. You're wrong.

All the change did was increase cost of the end goods.


I'm sorry but you are wrong.

PI used to be something a new player could start from day one. Now the level of taxes prevents any new players from doing PI until they have established a foot hold and have several million isk to throw around.

For veteran players the only impact was some mild inflation. As you say no real affect other than an increase in the cost of end goods.So it really achieved nothing except putting one more aspect of the game out of reach for new players.


And how, pray tell, have you deduced that the initial start up fee for a new player to begin PI has risen several million ISK as the result of the new tax percentage? It's certainly not the amount of taxes they pay for their first load of PI materials exported.


To run level 3 PI takes only a few hours of skill training. the cost of the command center+level 3 upgrade + the facilities needed to set up the planet is a large investment for a new player. Only to find out that they can not afford to export the commodities made on the planet until they have grinded even more isk.

I do most of my PI in high sec. 4 characters with level 4 skills on all of them. I spend upwards of 5 mil per character on import/export taxes to cycle the 5 planets they run which is usually once a week. (not counting daily extractor resets which cost nothing) the costs are high enough that if I did not have a POS to fuel I would not be doing PI at all. If the costs were this high when I started PI I would not have bothered. The profits are about the same as they were before. But the investment is much higher.

For a new player 1 million dollars is a lot of money. Very few will spend the first few millions they make on setting up PI if the initial investment is so much higher than the returns. I was playing EVE for 6 months before I ever reached 10 mil isk on my first account.


You're doing it wrong by doing it in Empire. Terrible yields Terrible taxes Terrible idea. Null, LS, WH or GTFO.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-02-02 20:03:41 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
CCP_Diagoras John Turbefield
26.6% of characters who performed a PI transaction in Jan 2012 had less than 5 million skillpoints. #eveonline
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply



26,6% of PI characters are purpose built PI alts and goon newbies.


I call them my Harem, and there are 7 of them. Big smile
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-02-02 20:03:58 UTC
New and poor players could always join a null alliance, where the tax rates are zero and there are more planets then people.
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