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Suicide Gankers: Evening Risk to Reward Ratio : Add moar tears!
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#21 - 2012-02-01 18:05:16 UTC
kla samon wrote:

This thread isn't a whine about suicide ganking at all. I don't want suicide ganking taken out of the game . Nor do i want it harder for them to blow up a ship. I just want a more dynamic mechanism for all parties involved.


QFT... Of all the stop-suicide gankers threads, this thread actually adhere's to the core EvE values. It doesn't take away risks, but actually ADDS more risk to the game!!!

I think your idea is brilliant!!!!

A couple of suggestions:

1.) The decoy container should be configureable with limits. Configure it by linking One, and only one, specific game item, followed by any desired quantity.

2.) It would be appropriate to list the decoy container item, as well as its fake contents, in a ship's cargo scan.

3.) Allow the decoy container to be used in contracts. Where the decoy container is listed, as well as its fake contents.

4.) The decoy container should be a player made object, probably from PI goods (Perhaps a tier 4 product)...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#22 - 2012-02-01 18:47:34 UTC
kla samon wrote:
This thread isn't a whine about suicide ganking at all. I don't want suicide ganking taken out of the game . Nor do i want it harder for them to blow up a ship. I just want a more dynamic mechanism for all parties involved.

It's funny though, when someone suggests an idea that threatens easy mode play , whiners come. From what it seems suicide gankers are no better than incursion bears when it comes to suggesting a different approach than the easy mode they currently enjoy. I think gankbears might be an appropriate term.
It's the very definition of a suicide gank whine thread. You're asking for a change without a valid reason, but giving plenty of misinformation to try and help back it up.

kla samon wrote:
It seems only fair that suicide gankers are able to be targeted in a unique manner as well as them being able to blow up and profit from the unprepared hauler.
Bolded the crux of the matter and the funny thing is you stated it, but didn't see it.

As far as the hiding in NPC corps is concerned, that works both ways. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#23 - 2012-02-01 19:07:25 UTC
Mag's wrote:
.... Unhelpful and moreless irrelevant crap about suicide whiners...


Do you actually have something to say on why this would be a good, bad, or irrellevant module for the game, like how it could be improved or misused or what ever?

I can't tell if you're trying to add to the discussion, or just trolling!




Mag's
Azn Empire
#24 - 2012-02-01 19:23:56 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Mag's wrote:
.... Unhelpful and moreless irrelevant crap about suicide whiners...


Do you actually have something to say on why this would be a good, bad, or irrellevant module for the game, like how it could be improved or misused or what ever?

I can't tell if you're trying to add to the discussion, or just trolling!




Ahh yes, the 'you disagree and therefore must be trolling' retort. Nicely played sir, nicely played.

I don't see the need for this, as my alts BR is testament to just how easy it is to avoid being ganked. Maybe if the OP was a little more honest and not dish out so much misinformation, many would actually look more favourably at his idea. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-02-01 19:33:35 UTC
solution: make multiple trips
alternative solution: buy orca
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#26 - 2012-02-01 21:17:01 UTC
Death Warmedup wrote:
I do hope by "anything you cant fit into a cov ops" means nothing at all valuable. in my pirate days, my RSB'd hurricane melted MANY a cov ops ship on the jita undock before they could align to warp off. much safer to move valuable stuff in bigger, better tanked ships

I just undock and warp to an insta, to be honest when I say "something of value" I mean items that are valuable to the point where even suicide ganking something with battleship EHP would be profitable. I generally just get around it by not giving them a chance to scan my cargo.

I'll probably still lose a load of mods that way one day, but hey, it happens.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-02-01 22:06:09 UTC
Secure Cargo Containers I think are unscannable, as far as their contents. I suppose if you wanted someone to think you had a really large load you could load up a bunch of them and just leave them empty, of course they are lockable and password protected to so why leave them empty.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#28 - 2012-02-01 22:18:19 UTC
Zyress wrote:
Secure Cargo Containers I think are unscannable, as far as their contents.
No.
Scanners can see through one layer of containers in your cargo hold.

Quote:
I suppose if you wanted someone to think you had a really large load you could load up a bunch of them and just leave them empty, of course they are lockable and password protected to so why leave them empty.
Doesn't work either. If a container is full, the container itself doesn't show up on scan; if the container is empty it does. So the guy scanning you will see the empty containers as exactly that: empty containers. Also, locking and password-protecting them makes no difference since it doesn't affect scans and since you can bypass it in-station — it only really works as a protective measure if the container is anchored in space.
Amaroq Dricaldari
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-02-02 01:45:04 UTC
Msgerbs wrote:
Because removing insurance wasn't enough?

Insurance got removed?

This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#30 - 2012-02-02 02:31:04 UTC
Suicide ganking risks are only "low" because player who get ganked don't make use of things provided for them.


Easy prey = low risks.

If the targets take the easy way, so do the gankers. Should never be a game mechanic that changes that.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#31 - 2012-02-02 02:31:27 UTC
Amaroq Dricaldari wrote:
Msgerbs wrote:
Because removing insurance wasn't enough?

Insurance got removed?

Yeah for Concord involved deaths.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-02-02 06:11:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
hi, i'd like to help the OP out by stating that suicide ganking is the riskiest way to make ISK in empire!

even if you succeed at ganking the target, the loot doesn't always drop. if it does, someone else might scoop it up before you do. regardless of what happens, you lose your ship.

i'm sorry that you lost your stuff, but maybe you should consider taking precautions?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Sinooko
Tharumec
Gespenster Kompanie
#33 - 2012-02-02 07:17:40 UTC
Let's even the playing field. I want to see more bilateral slugfests in highsec. Things are too lopsided towards greifers in their current form. I like blowing **** up as much as the next guy, especially in PvP, so let's have more of it. Transfer killrights on stolen goods, make a better bounty system, allow for the creation of merc contracts. I want to see some legitemate heartfelt bloodshed, guard corpoprations, bounty hunting, grudge matches and the like. Good organizations like Eve U suffer non-stop wardecs with minimal options for providing security for their new players. Sandboxes should be about building sandcastles not just knocking them over.
kla samon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-02-02 11:35:09 UTC
Again, I'd like to point out that this isn't a nerf suicide ganking thread. This isn't an OP lost his cargo to a suicide gank so lets come to the forums and nerd rage thread. There is no need to explain to the OP how to avoid being suicide ganked. I know how to avoid getting ganked. I'll say it again, I've never been ganked.

I realize it's easy to see 'suicide ganking' in the thread title and jumped to the above conclusions without taking the time to fully read and comprehend the proposal.

I suggested the ability to haul decoy cargo because I think it would add another layer of fun and open up a new line of work for the citizens of eve.

I understand gankbears are protective of their chosen trade. In no way did I suggest a nerf to them shooting ships. Hell, buff more ships like destroyers so its easier to skill up and shoot industrials. While we are at it, let players haul decoy cargo to try and bait people into shooting us.

I would think pirates and tear collectors out there would love this idea. Not only do you get to shoot industrials and try to profit off the loot but you can also bait other pirates into shooting you thus increasing the violencing of more ships, more loot, and more yar!
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#35 - 2012-02-02 12:35:30 UTC
This is actually a very good idea. The best part is that this is exactly the type of idea that transporters would think of. Use decoys...
Only other ways to avoid being stolen from is to hire security and/or try to be sneaky. Those two options are already well developed into EVE mechanics (and have been misguidedly mentioned in this thread).
CCP should definitely look into this option, because it would add an intriguing new layer to the depth of strategy.

-As a side note, I'll engage the argument. So far from what i have read (and i read every line of every post) there are alot of people who are trying to argue against this idea from the stand point that the OP is suggesting something it is not... People have called him a whiner and someone who doesn't want to be suicide ganked, which leads me to believe that most of you haven't actually read beyond the threads title... (or even just beyond the first two words of the title)... and it is very clear that Kla samon is correct in calling the people arguing this "gankbears", and that you are scared..... Its ok. Its a natural reaction to be fearful of change, but this is a good suggestion and would UNARGUABLY increase the pvp dynamics that EVE has to offer.

+1
Msgerbs
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-02-03 04:24:51 UTC
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:
Msgerbs wrote:
Because removing insurance wasn't enough?


Insurance was never going to effect the outcome of profitability of Suicide ganking. This was discerned prior to the change.

And there are gankers in the community claiming to earn a plex worth in an afternoon from the activity. Not profitable enough for you.

Please ask how the minium wage miner endangers that? And yet if you ask for mining to be more competative to help replace ship losses, the ganking communities arse tighten up as a result and it starts to flow from other holes. Which is odd really, as if the pinatas could be replaced more quickly it would help with the ganker income.

Also other changes where a significant improvement to the ganker's repetoire. Dessies where improved, Tier 3 BCs with large alpha guns introduced to replace more expensive BS use.

And yet the sucide ganker still hides behind broken conflict mechanics or abuses NPC and coporation systems to avoid conflict or retaliation. I wonder how many times a ganker has jumped in a newb ship when actually chased down by a miner with teeth. Heaven forbid you might have to one day fight something that actually shoots back.

Yep obviously suicide gankers have it too hard, get real. Roll
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Suicide ganking ist erribly difficult, wahhhh, make it easier.

Get over yourself. It's a pvp game. You got popped. Deal with it. The insurance changes were good, anything else is too much. The problem is you're operating under some delusion that suicide ganking is wrong and needs fixing in the first place. The suicide gankers already lose their ship, what more do you want? Total invincibility in highsec? Ganking is a profession that relies entirely on the stupidity of others.
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#37 - 2012-02-03 07:39:08 UTC
I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with this. To go out a bait people into ganking you and failing?

If you spent a few minutes to think about doing it with current mechanics, there would be no need for this "idea" thread.

As a "ganker" (gtfo with this term, it's dumb but using it to help understand), every now and then I cargo scan haulers like badger IIs and mammoths with some very sweet loot, only for the ship scanner to discover a ridiculous tank, with a gun mounted. And I mean a tank that 2 alpha tornados wouldn't break. I wonder what he's trying to do.

That my friend is people being innovative. You don't need some arbitrary mechanic for everything. It's all in the game. 99.9999999% safety is already built in too, if you think to use it. We don't need an easy button for everything.

What this thinly veiled whine pretending to be an idea, is attempting to completely shift risk in one direction. How about you do what I described above and milk tears that way, risking something.

Why I say this is a whine, it's easy to see when you start talking "gankbears", "ganking too easy", "no risk" etc etc...

Suiciding is not wrong and doesn't need a fix. It only appears easy because one party plans their action while the other just stumbles around. Of course the victim is gonna think omg wtf unfair. Because the ganker just pressed the "go forth and gank" button while he went to read a newspaper, right? Get real. You're always watching an execution of a plan vs someone who had no plan. And this is somehow unfair?

Also, half of my ganks that were meant to be profitable don't drop anything of value. This isn't risk? Because everything always drops right.

Everything is already in the game. And I'm not talking out of my ass since I do have a character cruising around high sec all the time. Never ever been ganked. Even back in the days when high sec suicide was much easier.

I really should just stop replying to these kind of threads. It's usually like talking to a wall Roll
Rockius
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-02-03 09:13:02 UTC
A little effort goes a long way instead of trying to find ways of getting revenge on gankers try to find ways of outsmarting them. Just make a 150km instawarp BM off the undock its not like a inty can chase you down and scramble you. Hide your cargo in secure containers if it fits. Also try putting tanks on your ships, I know this will not stop a alpha strike but it will keep you alive against single attackers.
The true worth of a man is to be measured by the objects he pursues. 
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