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Long range mission fits nearly obsolete?
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Spineker
#21 - 2012-01-30 06:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
Cross training is fantastic, I can fly 3 different Srat Cruisers, I can use guns or missiles it doesn't reeally matter or drones. I just don't use drone boats because they are slow compared to missile boats which most have drones. Now Gun boat captains will say Guns are better but really? Missiles, no not really after the first volley hits they are just like guns only faster and more damage. Everyone talks of insta hits but after the travel of the first volley all are insta hits. Every hit after the first is whatever rate of fire you have be it 2 seconds or 7 seconds.

In my noob day (Flying Harpy full out) the Ishtar was the magical kingdom, I remember taking on one with 5 people and we failed. Things change world changes adapt or die. That is the eve world.
Spineker
#22 - 2012-01-30 06:12:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
If you don't undestand missiles let me explain.

The first volley takes 8 seconds to hit yet the next volley will take whatever your rate of fire takes.

First volley takes 8 seconds the next volley is 3 seconds behind or whatever your ROF is. Yes there is a delay but very little and more damage compared to guns.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#23 - 2012-01-30 08:01:41 UTC
L'Petit Object wrote:
I don't know if you trolled me or trolled somoeone else. But, It's working! AND FAST. That'st eh point. It's SOOO much faster than **** cruise missle/rail dps.

Not a troll. Sorry, I just really liked the series and couldn't resist. Mea culpa.

I have an AB on all my mission ships. I use one primarily to reduce incoming damage, and secondarily to make gate travel bearable. I've found the fitting of a MWD too painful, especially with reduced capacitor, and signature bloom.

If you like short-range weapons and a MWD, and you can make it work for you, I say have at it. Big smile
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#24 - 2012-01-31 09:44:27 UTC
Agreed, play thew game how you like it. Hear other peoples experiences and try them out, might like it more. Internet spaceships is serious business but no reason it cant be fun serious business.

Personally I started off with caldari so has mostly been long range missile lobbing with slow as heck ships. Got the CNR and doing missions fast in them but not THAT exciting. Still gets me the loot fastest and thats what I like, loots.

Now I training mini to get a loki (tengu is too op for my tastes) and on the way I discovered how fun it could be to fly an Arty Mael. Sure you don't put the dps out that a CNR can but it's still fun and I use it for wormhole ops and when missioning with someone.

Still haven't tried the short range thing yet tho (played about with pirate frigs, AC rupture for anoms etc.) but I should cover it once I get the Loki.

Also instapopping BCs at 80km IS kinda fun. Feels very powerful when you have a 1 click BOOM button. Kinda like headshots. Or when popping 4 frigs at once hehe.

Do what makes you happy, Long range isn't dead tho :)

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#25 - 2012-01-31 14:09:48 UTC
Your thread title is wrong, you cannot generalize across all ships. You should have named it "Raven long range mission fit obsolete?"

That said, long range is basically always superior once you get the right ships. A Vargur/Mach/Nightmare/Paladin clears half the mission room while you are still MWD'ing with your Raven. And even with T1 ships, I think a well fitted Arty Mael is still faster because it is able to get rid of smaller ships faster. Torp Raven has to rely on drones for frigs and since most missions consist of many frigs and cruisers, you lose time. Not to mention the travel times to get back to gates etc.
Squidgey
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-01-31 19:51:12 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Confirming that the best way to play a video game is the way that's the most fun for you.

Confirming that this is in fact not true and you should play the game the exact same way as what I think is the most fun way otherwise you are terrible.






Amidoinitrite?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#27 - 2012-01-31 20:34:20 UTC
L'Petit Object wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
and how long does it take you to get to 1km/s in your raven? also how long does your cap/tank last? where in a long range setup I can just sit there and kill everything.

I did some ratting in a torp raven once, that was pretty awesome, although it was pre-nano nerf


It takes about 3 cycles to get my raven up to full speed. I've been missioning for 2 days like this. Haven't run into a missiion that was a problem yet. But I'm not tanking. Friend in close range fit AB hyperion is tanking.

There are definitely some missions that are going to be a problem. But so far so good. But all those Angel missions, we just BURRRRN through those big BS. No kiting required. Thanks for reading and commenting



ah yes I was coming from the solo perspective, having a 2nd player in the mission can change quite a few things.

and heck angel ships pretty much come right into torp range on their own rather quickly.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#28 - 2012-01-31 20:58:27 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Confirming that the best way to play a video game is the way that's the most fun for you.


This, 1,000 times over this.

See signature top line.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#29 - 2012-01-31 21:13:28 UTC
Spineker wrote:
If you don't undestand missiles let me explain.

The first volley takes 8 seconds to hit yet the next volley will take whatever your rate of fire takes.

First volley takes 8 seconds the next volley is 3 seconds behind or whatever your ROF is. Yes there is a delay but very little and more damage compared to guns.


and because of this delay you have to either count volleys or waste lots of fire power. that and there are always some ships where it is if it doesn't boost and fire a defender it will die on this volley if not I have to fire another volley to finish it off.

most gun ships do more dps than missile ships, but are locked to a damage profile. imo it is much easier to manage transversial than count volleys.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Spineker
#30 - 2012-01-31 22:30:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
Neither of which are any big deal it is second nature to me, gun ships are not better than Missiles in PVE missions period. They are more work and you miss a good deal you never miss with missiles. It is all over in the wash guns are fun but missiles are better.

If you can't keep up with volley or the number needed to kill the rats you are fighting then I suggest you start getting more experience.
JackStraw56
Run Like an Antelope
#31 - 2012-02-01 02:06:34 UTC
I've been using a MWD on my Mach ever since they first allowed them and I love it. I didn't need the afterburner to help the tank and with an x-type MWD it's not causing me cap problems.

I don't think this makes long range fits obsolete though, a tach nightmare is still a good mission ship.
stoicfaux
#32 - 2012-02-01 02:33:24 UTC
Spineker wrote:
Neither of which are any big deal it is second nature to me, gun ships are not better than Missiles in PVE missions period. They are more work and you miss a good deal you never miss with missiles. It is all over in the wash guns are fun but missiles are better.

Having flown both gun and missile boats in missions, I disagree. Except for the guns requiring more a bit work. That part is true. Well, except when juggling 3-5 TPs on the Golem.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#33 - 2012-02-01 04:03:13 UTC
guns are good unless you are either a simpleton who can't handle much more than pressing one button every now and then, or are only willing to use one mission ship.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-02-01 10:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tore Smith
Spineker wrote:
Neither of which are any big deal it is second nature to me, gun ships are not better than Missiles in PVE missions period. They are more work and you miss a good deal you never miss with missiles. It is all over in the wash guns are fun but missiles are better.

If you can't keep up with volley or the number needed to kill the rats you are fighting then I suggest you start getting more experience.


Not true, period. Guns are superior. See how much sense that kind of “argument” makes?

OT: I’ve found guns to actually be superior. And that is why:
1. With the exception of the Golem no mission missile ship has the same (high) damage potential as turret ships. The Golem though suffers from range issues and general TP hassle.
2. Tengu: In addition to above mentioned limitation, the Tengu suffers damage loss due to defender missiles and overkill damage. And those 2 don’t like each other, because if you ungroup the launchers for less overkill damage, the amount of defenders fired rises.
3. Don’t you hate counting missiles to have maximum efficiency? That has nothing to do with getting more experience, instead it directly invalidates your statement that guns are more work.
4. You never miss, that’s true, but you don’t do full damage either if your target is small and/or fast. In missions transversal management with turrets is easy so missing is not the problem you say it is.
Firebolt145
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#35 - 2012-02-01 11:30:08 UTC
Transversal is ridiculously easy to manage. You don't even have to think about it.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#36 - 2012-02-01 12:34:05 UTC
L'Petit Object wrote:
Since MWD's are allowed in missions. I'm beginning to experiment with MWD short range setups. My torp raven can do 1km/s. So why gimp my DPS? I stay more active and have more fun, and I finish faster. Anyone else having this experience?


My HML Furies do >8Km/s

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#37 - 2012-02-01 16:26:53 UTC
Spineker wrote:
If you don't undestand missiles let me explain.

The first volley takes 8 seconds to hit yet the next volley will take whatever your rate of fire takes.

First volley takes 8 seconds the next volley is 3 seconds behind or whatever your ROF is. Yes there is a delay but very little and more damage compared to guns.


Let me explain something to you, you seem to ignore here. Once your volleys hitting every 3 seconds that ship you are shooting at is going to explode soon. And after it explodes, your volleys are not anymore hitting anything ... ;-)

Instant hits mean you have not to volley count to switch target in time. You do not care much if that stupid rat got lucky and shield rep 3 times instead of the usual 1 time, because you can instantly adjust targets and have not to guess how many volleys you will need now to pop it, you will never waste a volley, ever.

This is an advantage, even when you can compensate with good guessing and experience as missile user.

Remove insurance.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-02-01 23:19:37 UTC
L'Petit Object wrote:
Since MWD's are allowed in missions. I'm beginning to experiment with MWD short range setups. My torp raven can do 1km/s. So why gimp my DPS? I stay more active and have more fun, and I finish faster. Anyone else having this experience?


Because you can use that same 1 km/s to get to long-range then sacrifice the tank for DPS mods.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-02-01 23:29:03 UTC
Spineker wrote:

In PVE I will take missiles over guns any day. They talk about insta hitting but with missiles after the first hit they are insta hitting. Every 3.52 seconds.


To me I see the opposite. Missiles take a lot of extra work because you have to remember to turn them off 1-3 volleys early depending on your setup/distance to target. You also have to guess correctly that you're that many volleys away from killing your target. On my NH killing a BC at 50km, if I don't do this I shoot it 5 times instead of 3, meaning I'm really only applying 60% of my DPS.

I'm experimenting with a blaster proteus. So far, all I've determined is that my gunnery skills are still mediocre and that drones are easily killed. (Might drop some extra drones for 37.5% more tracking. At that point I'd have no trouble shooting frigs with my med blasters.)
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#40 - 2012-02-02 01:06:36 UTC
In incursions assaults and HQ's the sniper fits ARE A NECESSITY
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
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