Assembly Hall

wow you totally didn't read the fact that i left out hardwirings

might as well biomass your forum alt and roll a new one!

I dislike agreeing with (TEST)icles and Goons, but I like this idea.

Ask, and we shall receive.






So, 14.5% of kills in hisec result in a podding. At least this is how it worked out in January. Over the course of a year then, 15-20% would be more than generous of an assumption.

edit -- So a 1 in 5 chance of losing your pod... learning implants are fine.
edit 2 -- yes, this is HISEC ONLY. In no way am I implying that nullsec is anywhere as "safe" for your pod.

I don't think lowsec would be much higher than highsec -- still can't bubble ... though on the other hand, the PvP guys are probably "better" at the twitch-lock that you need to nab a pod... I'd be surprised if it's above 33%.

Nullsec/W-space is probably closer to 50% (or even higher), so the question of implants there is probably valid.

Most Hardwiring implants have an actual impact on your ship. If you don't fly with them, they bring you nothing. Learning implants don't work that way. There is a similar issue with, say, industry implants, but it's a minor one as characters with these implants rarely undock to pvp anyway.

Learning implants affect everyone and make people less willing to risk in pvp, so...



/Supported

I wouldnt mind losing the learning implants, but do like their uniqueness in the game. Not sure what to replace them with.

Only think I can think of is like learning stones in CQ, not sure if that will be a hit though. Other then that can only think of learning skills again :). Make learning skills like rigging is designed. Cybernetics for the core skill. Then the attribute skill maybe it will be a 2x skill to train after cybernetics. Want the learning skill at 4 train cyber to 4 then that skill. or want 5 train cyber to 5 then that skill. Maybe make the attribute skill a 1x one but thought that maybe too cheap.

Only thing I can think of, maybe better ideas.

Think a lot of people are totally missing the point in this thread.

It's not about riskless pvp in null sec. Anyone living in null for longer than 10 minutes will probably be using a jump clone if they don't want to lose implants or have so much isk that they don't care anyway.

This is about removing an unnecessary barrier to new players that will not have jump clones nor the isk to replace implants if they get podded.

All the things mentioned in this thread about people not participating in fleet is usually from newer players that can't afford the losses the bitter vets can.

Anything that makes the game fun for new players can only ever be a good thing.

And before anyone says anything, yes I do live in null and I have not had any implants in over 3 years so I don't run any risk in loosing pods anyway. I couldn't care less about the 2-3 days I could save on learning something by having learning implants. It isn't that important. Playing the game and killing things is.

Just like this.

One possible solution could be to add insurance for implants.

"Reduces" but does not completley remove adverse risk associated with using them.

Adds another potentially significant ISK sink into the game.

Dual benefit without the need to simply delete content.

Supported.

Oh and all the dodos squawking "risk vs reward" where is the reward exactly?

Learning implants are a place where not taking risks is rewarded while taking risks is punished.

Sit in high sec with +5 learnings gain faster training, risk little.
Fight in nullsec with no implants lose training speed while risking much.

Oh and in PVP it's not a question of whether one is going to lose something rather than when, it's not a risk it's cost.

Even beyond the whole question of cost there is also the factor of availability.

Personally I have no problem risking +4s 40 mil isn't all that much in the scheme of things, but atm I'm stuck in a +3 clone not because I wasn't willing to pay for +4s for it but because there were none in the market when I made the clone in question. So now when it comes to a simple question of whether to go that clone (which is in our staging system) I have to calculate the chances of something actually happening to make the loss of learning speed worth it at least until that clone is destroyed.

Training speed is just to valuable a thing, particularly to new players, Once one has a solid skill set it's less so but when you're first starting out and you have all these "required" skills that are on opposing attribute sets it's a BFD (that's Big *#$&$&ing Deal to you civies )

Oh and faceless forum alt cowards, your opinions are discarded because there is no way to check your bonifides no way to see if might actually have some experience to support your opinions and arguments. As an experienced debater I know full well that it's often very easy to support a bullshit argument if you toss out enough unfounded assertions.

You have no credibility and your arguments are worth exactly squat.


Implants are a significant isk sink.. got any actual cites on that?

Because the reality is that most people just simply are not going to be risking expensive implants on a regular basis.

This is something that you rattle off because you think it must be true while the reality is that it just isn't. Learning implants particularly the expensive ones simply aren't replaced that often. Most nullsec PVPers don't wear them so it's not like they're burning through them at a prodigious rate and high and low sec players aren't losing many of them either.

Not at the rate to make them a "significant isk sink"

No for the most part the expensive learning implants get stuck in a high sec clone and left kept in the safe confines of high sec so there is no risk there only reward to the risk averse.

If you are going to base your arguments on "risk vs reward" then you should damned well be sure that the reward scales proportionally with the risk rather than inversely.


Implants are a place where all the rewards go to the non-risk takers.

Personally I agree with the general sentiment that attributes should be removed entirely they are a silly mechanic that really only act to limit peoples choices. and no that's the same as suggesting that everyone gets all skills at 5, prioritizing skills based on need rather than some long term map plan is not the same as eliminating planning all together.

And to all the "I'm willing to risk my implants anyone who doesn't is just a wuss", good for you, You wanna a cookie?

It remains a stupid mechanic that discourages risk taking by rewarding the risk averse.

+1 support