Warfare & Tactics

Outline of Argument

Rivals should co-operate to maximise outcomes for both parties - that is the conclusion of Game Theory, a mathematical method used in economics to solve business problems in markets.


Red vs Blue Precedent.

The reason Red vs Blue works so well for pvp is that the two corporations co-operate even though they are fighting each other. A common, loose agreement is made which both sides work within. This maximises chances for friendly combat and ensures players achieve their goals without wasting time or other valuable resources.


Faction militia problems

The problems within each of the faction militias are the same whether it is Gallente, Caldari etc. The solution to these problems is not to re-organise the militias, which is an endless process. The solution is for the rival militias to set down some kind of combat agreement which allows both sides to achieve their goals and fight within a certain framework.


Limited Resources

Most EVE players work or study, and do not enjoy the problems of fleet fights that never happen, or organisational complexity due to randomness or other frustrations.

All sides will reduce these costs to themselves, without giving any advantage to the enemy, if they make mutual agreements and work together at the leadership level to ensure smooth combat operations occur with minimal cost and disruption to their player's time and energy.

Also Caldari and Amarr are just wrong. They should surrender. Then we can all move on to concerning every thing else.

Asking for the Militia to change and suit what you just stated is like having a celebrity ask for the "Media" to stop reporting bad news on her. "The Media" is essentially a generic word that holds no organization accountable for the reporting of news. Thus, the habits of The Media will never change.

Like "The Media", "The Militia" is made up of many corporations and entities with their own agenda and interests. Those agenda conflict with each other. Trying to get all or most of the corporations to see eye to eye on this issue is an endless process unto itself. Thus, "The Militia" cannot really be held accountable for anything. Be that lack of organization, endless blobbing, or FOTM accusations.

Be careful about referencing RvB as precedent. RvB does have great success if you want a controlled environment. But many people avoid it because it is considered contrived.

Appreciate the idea though.

Thank-you for the input. I think that two rival "militias" don't need to be thought of as 2 uniform, rival agents operating under a universal set of principles in order for players to benefit from enhanced co-operation across faction lines. Agreements can be local and temporary and would arise from communication as the first step in the process of removing avoidable costs.

So you are correct that a simplistic and uniform approach will not work, but a more nuanced and flexible form of cross-faction communication might work in different situations.





I would suggest that the elimination of "avoidable costs" would be the best measure of effectiveness. In particular, the cost of time wasted because rival faction units are not co-ordinating their ops in the same time or battle space.





The same economic costs apply to military operations - wasted resources through avoidable duplication of tasks [such as mutual patrolling] or redundant tasks that inflict costs without rewards [time spent forming up for a battle that doesn't happen].





There are a potentially infinite number of problem setups, but any situation where both sides are undertaking a mutual and avoidable cost for no reason is one which could benefit from co-operation to eliminate the complexity that is inflicting the cost.

Not fighting would be more effective than fighting .... I do not think your idea is gonna work here ;-)
Lets just kill amarr.

I'm surprised you don't know the answer. But yes. Gallente outnumbers Caldari greatly at the moment. Minmatar and Amarr tend to be equal.

What is your motivation for starting this thread?

double post

Except were in some of your examples if someone doesn't follow the pre arranged standards a person can be removed, they can't just simple be removed from your faction in FW. You could do other things of course to try to control the behavior of others but ultimatly you'll just end up with more infighting among factions.

Basically the precedents used have some mitigating function available to use on players who don't follow the "rules". What you suggest does not, nor are many of the possible ways to mitigate it reasonable. Ultimatly you're left with this whole thread of thoughts that rely not only on a majority but more like 95%+ of each faction to for no reason other than some moral or social obligation follow any of this. This is Eve we are talking about....

Edit: Not to say none of this could be done or has been done etc, just that it has alot of potential to not work.

Liberty- I don't think it's impossible to have both sides (or a few corps from both sides) come to a mutual understanding and terms of engagement. For example, you could have a sort of Frig Friday for militia members or some variation of that. This would benefit many folks especially the newbs who are trying to learn . FCs and vets will have more experienced pilots coming with them on fights knowing that they won't have as many fail fits.

As for the wargaming concept. It does exist with plexes. Each plex can only allow a certain size ship so an enemy militia will take their gang in knowing that the opposition can only bring a certain size too. If you look up some of the current FW threads, numerous people have chimed in saying how plexes can be improved upon to encourage more balanced fights and pvp.

The key to accomplish what you suggest is for each side to acknowledge it's useless to point fingers at "The Militia". It's a generic word with no accountability. Instead, it would be more helpful if individual corps reached out to other corps of the opposition and see if terms of engagement can be agreed upon.

Everyone benefits especially the constant influx of newbs who are in general militia and have no clue as to what they're doing. It's nice to know if CCP can fix FW, but I don't see a reason why current members cannot try to work together to create a more healthy FW environment. From the senior burned out FC, to the jaded vet, to the complete noob, everyone wins.

Otherwise, might be best to just troll each other on forum once a week . C'est la Eve.

From an RP perspective, we both know that the Caldari would rather go bankrupt and the Amarr would rather commit heresy than surrender to their respective enemies.