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Issler Dainze for CSM7! Hear the bears roar!

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The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#141 - 2012-02-01 22:43:10 UTC  |  Edited by: The Mittani
Weaselior wrote:


hello issler

i hate to pull your pants down in front of the entire class but drone alloys are the biggest source of low-ends in the game, the things the average miner mines

i hope this was edifying to you!



no no no the drone alloy issue has nothing to do with mining in hisec ONLY THINGS THAT EXIST IN HISEC MATTER what is this endless flow of cheap botted minerals coming from and ruining the value of mining across eve for years


THE CSM IS USELESS

~hi~
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#142 - 2012-02-01 22:44:33 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Why should a hisec player support you over Trebor, who has a proven record of consistent support for the same constituency you claim to represent?

Is it that Trebor is skeptical of Incarna, and you prioritize 'ambulation' as something of value?


Bear in mind that this same guy was in favor of Incarna like... let me recall... was it some 9 months ago? Surely i could stretch my memory and conduct a succesufl search for the written evidence of it (internet barely deletes and never forgets).
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#143 - 2012-02-01 22:46:49 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Why should a hisec player support you over Trebor, who has a proven record of consistent support for the same constituency you claim to represent?

Is it that Trebor is skeptical of Incarna, and you prioritize 'ambulation' as something of value?


Bear in mind that this same guy was in favor of Incarna like... let me recall... was it some 9 months ago? Surely i could stretch my memory and conduct a succesufl search for the written evidence of it (internet barely deletes and never forgets).


considering Trebor signed on csm5's open letter against incarna more than a year ago i'm going to say you're a sad-sack tryhard troll

your vote and your 'issue' literally does not matter to the playerbase, which is why subs are going up post-crucible rather than nosediving during your precious WiS experience

i and basically everyone else playing this game welcome your emnity and rage with delight as we tool around in our newly-revamped and balanced and lag-free spaceship game (about spaceships)

try second life~

~hi~
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#144 - 2012-02-01 22:57:19 UTC
weaselior ownzoned issler out of her own candidacy thread

hi5s all around

~hi~
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#145 - 2012-02-01 22:58:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Rebalanced Destroyers - no use
Logistics Ship Balancing -no use
Hybrid Weapon Balancing -no use
Time Dilation -no use
Assault Frigate Balancing -no use


are you daft or do you just dismiss these changes as trivial because they're of no use to your gameplay niche

i totally agree, balanced destroyers, assault frigates and hybrids are of no use at all

excuse me while i go back to deciding on a fit for an astarte whose weapons have recently been boosted nicely

still useless though lol!!!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#146 - 2012-02-01 22:58:43 UTC
The Mittani wrote:


yes yes, a coherent media messaging strategy from CSM6 which got dramatic, effective results means i'm an ~overlord~ and we have to keep in lockstep on the forums

i don't mind you running, but don't spew childish hyperbole without having done your research; csm6 offers a variety of wildly different opinions on a broad spectrum of issues - but when it comes to pressure tactics, we get the job done as a unit, for the benefit of all (unless you don't like Crucible and loved Incarna, in which case i magnanimously welcome your spite).

the idea that i control seleene or trebor is simply laughable - and if you repeat such tosh, your candidacy will be too.

edit:

i see you claim we've done no work on mining, when we've spent quite a bit of time discussing the drone alloy situation with ccp and that's in the minutes, too, and is likely to be solved soon. consider me mildly annoyed by your obvious, easily dismissed falsehoods.


I've always given the CSM 6 props for their effectiveness, its why I'm trying to make sure there are some carebears in the next CSM to help delute the effectiveness at driving CCP focus to the interests of nulsec power blocks you guys represent.

I also recongnize there is variety in the opinions of the CSM 6. I would never deny that. However, you have created a situation where there is a widely held perception that you do in fact dominate the CSM 6. I can't say I'm in that camp and don't intend to run a VoR vs. a single individual is the CSM campaign. Now VoR vs. a myoptic "our primary interests over all others" power block seeking to dominate the CSM 7, that is my campaign in a nutshell. Ok, not entirely. Here is the essense of my campaign.

Eve is PvP CONFLICT in every element of the experience.

This is not just "in ships, shoot a stranger in the face" conflict. It is fighting for isks when cleaning out a belt, when playing the markets, when collecting assetts missioning, it is being more efficient building to make more than the other guy. It is everything in Eve. And it is having fun doing it on your own terms. How, when and where you want to do it. In this giant multifaceted scifi universe sandbox simulator.

For too long we have been told by the "elite" that there is an "endgame" we all must be driven to in null and that aspects of we enjoy, like RP, small high sec corps, solo play and eventually walking in stations is something we should be ashamed of and be forced to abandon. I call to others, like myself that reject the notion that a small group of powerful players can dictate to CCP changes in our game that devalue our chosen style of game play. I believe that the CSM 6 showed very clearly that the CSM can distract CCP to focus on the interests of a powerful minority and ignore the majority of the players of Eve.



I do appreciate the dialog with the members of the CSM 6 that have chosen to post here.

Issler
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#147 - 2012-02-01 23:01:03 UTC  |  Edited by: The Mittani
instead of repeating your platform why don't you back up and try to deal with the mortal blow weaselior dealt you by demonstrating to all your ignorance about a core aspect of your platform

issler: i run on boosting mining but know nothing about the single biggest issue impacting mining's worth, literally for years now


this is kind of like when rick perry forgot his platform in the middle of a primary debate

~hi~
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#148 - 2012-02-01 23:06:50 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
The Mittani wrote:


i see you claim we've done no work on mining, when we've spent quite a bit of time discussing the drone alloy situation with ccp and that's in the minutes, too, and is likely to be solved soon. consider me mildly annoyed by your obvious, easily dismissed falsehoods.


That is about nul and not the daily high sec belt miner. When I talk about real improvmements in the mining experience I'm talking about how mining works for the average player.

Noodling with sources of high end minerals will affect markets to be sure but the majority of miners won't notice a thing. They don't mine the ore those minerals come from.

Thanks for a great example of the basic disconnect that CSM 6 has with the average "carebear" miner.

Issler


hello issler

i hate to pull your pants down in front of the entire class but drone alloys are the biggest source of low-ends in the game, the things the average miner mines

I hope this was edifying to you!


I hate to pull your pants down but as I said, that will affect MARKETS! Not the fundamental mining experience that every miner has since mining was put in Eve. You know, the thing that every PvP-er describes when they belittle miners for doing something boring and repetitive.

Learn to read more carefully. I said right up front markets will be affected, but that doesn't change warp to belt, approach rock of interest, target, activate laser...yawn... repeat, do one of a couple of the same things for years with the ore one you fill your hull.... rinse, repeat.

That is the mining experience that needs some improvements, that is what I meant. If you don't see that as the problem then you really have no idea what miners would like to see improve.


Issler
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#149 - 2012-02-01 23:08:50 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Here is the essense of my campaign.

Eve is PvP CONFLICT in every element of the experience.

This is not just "in ships, shoot a stranger in the face" conflict. It is fighting for isks when cleaning out a belt, when playing the markets, when collecting assetts missioning, it is being more efficient building to make more than the other guy. It is everything in Eve. And it is having fun doing it on your own terms. How, when and where you want to do it. In this giant multifaceted scifi universe sandbox simulator.

For too long we have been told by the "elite" that there is an "endgame" we all must be driven to in null and that aspects of we enjoy, like RP, small high sec corps, solo play and eventually walking in stations is something we should be ashamed of and be forced to abandon. I call to others, like myself that reject the notion that a small group of powerful players can dictate to CCP changes in our game that devalue our chosen style of game play. I believe that the CSM 6 showed very clearly that the CSM can distract CCP to focus on the interests of a powerful minority and ignore the majority of the players of Eve.




Maybe I am missing something, but did you forget to include your actual plan here? This sounds like a marketing blurb for the game.

I also missed the part where the CSM banned RP though, so maybe I am just not paying attention today.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2012-02-01 23:10:59 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
The Mittani wrote:


i see you claim we've done no work on mining, when we've spent quite a bit of time discussing the drone alloy situation with ccp and that's in the minutes, too, and is likely to be solved soon. consider me mildly annoyed by your obvious, easily dismissed falsehoods.


That is about nul and not the daily high sec belt miner. When I talk about real improvmements in the mining experience I'm talking about how mining works for the average player.

Noodling with sources of high end minerals will affect markets to be sure but the majority of miners won't notice a thing. They don't mine the ore those minerals come from.

Thanks for a great example of the basic disconnect that CSM 6 has with the average "carebear" miner.

Issler

quoting for posterity
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#151 - 2012-02-01 23:11:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Issler Dainze wrote:
[That is about nul and not the daily high sec belt miner. When I talk about real improvmements in the mining experience I'm talking about how mining works for the average player.

I don't know if nullsec miners (heh) would be considered the average player.
Issler Dainze wrote:
but that doesn't change warp to belt, approach rock of interest, target, activate laser...yawn... repeat, do one of a couple of the same things for years with the ore one you fill your hull.... rinse, repeat.

Align to gate 2F-, align to gate. Warp. Warp. Wait, if you warped your dead.

More interesting mining would be great, though. We might need to mine all these high-end ores after the drone region changes.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#152 - 2012-02-01 23:20:56 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
weaselior ownzoned issler out of her own candidacy thread

hi5s all around


You mean the guy that shows he misread my post and has no clue as what needs to change to make mining more enjoyable. It isn't just about isks, its about the activity itself.

This is where so many lose the plot. How many isks you make per hour isn't the metric that matters. It is the amount of fun you have per hour that matters most of all. The isks you make contributes to that but is only one of many factors.

The other part about mining is you quickly plateau. You can quickly train all the skills that will ever matter to you, get the best ships that help you mine and then then what? When is the last time something that changed the mining experience or provided a new skill to learn was put into Eve? And yet, this is an activity a huge segment of Eve spends their time doing.

For example, PvX, there is the complexity of ship fitting, even ship choice, real time activities that affect the outcome and real skill will improve your results, you learn and get better. There is no reason mining can't be made more like that.

I'd even suggest this, if mining was working the way a lot of miners would like it, it would be a lot hard to bot it. It would be a dynamic activity where active real time participation would improve results dramatically.

And again thanks for the excellent example of how you don't get mining.

Issler
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#153 - 2012-02-01 23:28:39 UTC
signing your posts doesn't win you votes sorry

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#154 - 2012-02-01 23:43:54 UTC
Two step wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Here is the essense of my campaign.

Eve is PvP CONFLICT in every element of the experience.

This is not just "in ships, shoot a stranger in the face" conflict. It is fighting for isks when cleaning out a belt, when playing the markets, when collecting assetts missioning, it is being more efficient building to make more than the other guy. It is everything in Eve. And it is having fun doing it on your own terms. How, when and where you want to do it. In this giant multifaceted scifi universe sandbox simulator.

For too long we have been told by the "elite" that there is an "endgame" we all must be driven to in null and that aspects of we enjoy, like RP, small high sec corps, solo play and eventually walking in stations is something we should be ashamed of and be forced to abandon. I call to others, like myself that reject the notion that a small group of powerful players can dictate to CCP changes in our game that devalue our chosen style of game play. I believe that the CSM 6 showed very clearly that the CSM can distract CCP to focus on the interests of a powerful minority and ignore the majority of the players of Eve.




Maybe I am missing something, but did you forget to include your actual plan here? This sounds like a marketing blurb for the game.

I also missed the part where the CSM banned RP though, so maybe I am just not paying attention today.


Can you point at a single game element suggested by CSM 6 that was focused at improving RP? You don't have to ban something if you can get CCP 100% focused on something else.

Plans with details to follow, remember, we aren't even in the election period yet. My activities so far have been to spread the word about the party and to if there are other canadiate interested. Remember, I want to support the best possible high sec non power block aligned candidates to make sure there is representation in CSM 7, and it is very possible that is someone other than me.

Issler
Wolfduke
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#155 - 2012-02-01 23:45:53 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
]This is where so many lose the plot. How many isks you make per hour isn't the metric that matters. It is the amount of fun you have per hour that matters most of all. The isks you make contributes to that but is only one of many factors.


I think all miners would disagree there. ISK is ALWAYS the bottom line.

Issler Dainze wrote:
]The other part about mining is you quickly plateau. You can quickly train all the skills that will ever matter to you, get the best ships that help you mine and then then what? When is the last time something that changed the mining experience or provided a new skill to learn was put into Eve? And yet, this is an activity a huge segment of Eve spends their time doing.


Quickly train? Again I beg to differ. Any idea how long it takes to train Exhumers V? Ore processing V? Mining Foreman Links?

Issler Dainze wrote:
I'd even suggest this, if mining was working the way a lot of miners would like it, it would be a lot hard to bot it. It would be a dynamic activity where active real time participation would improve results dramatically.


Unfortunately you have yet to demonstrate or even hint at what this might even begin to entail.

Issler Dainze wrote:
And again thanks for the excellent example of how you don't get mining.


It would appear that you don't either.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#156 - 2012-02-01 23:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Issler Dainze
Andski wrote:
signing your posts doesn't win you votes sorry


As I've explained in the past, I sign my posts as "branding". Smile

Issler and doesn't you "sig" declaring you as running for the CSM 7 amount to the same thing?

Issler
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#157 - 2012-02-01 23:46:53 UTC
Mother of god. This thread has severely damaged by faith in humanity.

Some people really, genuinely cannot tell when they should quit, can they?
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#158 - 2012-02-01 23:47:57 UTC
Wolfduke wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
]This is where so many lose the plot. How many isks you make per hour isn't the metric that matters. It is the amount of fun you have per hour that matters most of all. The isks you make contributes to that but is only one of many factors.


I think all miners would disagree there. ISK is ALWAYS the bottom line.

Issler Dainze wrote:
]The other part about mining is you quickly plateau. You can quickly train all the skills that will ever matter to you, get the best ships that help you mine and then then what? When is the last time something that changed the mining experience or provided a new skill to learn was put into Eve? And yet, this is an activity a huge segment of Eve spends their time doing.


Quickly train? Again I beg to differ. Any idea how long it takes to train Exhumers V? Ore processing V? Mining Foreman Links?

Issler Dainze wrote:
I'd even suggest this, if mining was working the way a lot of miners would like it, it would be a lot hard to bot it. It would be a dynamic activity where active real time participation would improve results dramatically.


Unfortunately you have yet to demonstrate or even hint at what this might even begin to entail.

Issler Dainze wrote:
And again thanks for the excellent example of how you don't get mining.


It would appear that you don't either.



Since I've run a mining corp with great success for 5+ years, I think I have some idea what miners want and it definitely is not "isks per hour".

Issler
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#159 - 2012-02-01 23:49:39 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:


Issler


Your name is over there to the left, under your portrait. Repeating this does nothing except annoy people who read it. Some people use that fact in order to elicit negative responses out of people, but some are just oblivious.

Though, it might just get you an invite to the Tautology Club. They're very selective, only accepting a handful of applicants. You have to prove to them that you would fit in, by making it clear that your share their interests.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#160 - 2012-02-01 23:50:57 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
The Mittani wrote:


i see you claim we've done no work on mining, when we've spent quite a bit of time discussing the drone alloy situation with ccp and that's in the minutes, too, and is likely to be solved soon. consider me mildly annoyed by your obvious, easily dismissed falsehoods.


That is about nul and not the daily high sec belt miner. When I talk about real improvmements in the mining experience I'm talking about how mining works for the average player.

Noodling with sources of high end minerals will affect markets to be sure but the majority of miners won't notice a thing. They don't mine the ore those minerals come from.

Thanks for a great example of the basic disconnect that CSM 6 has with the average "carebear" miner.

Issler


hello issler

i hate to pull your pants down in front of the entire class but drone alloys are the biggest source of low-ends in the game, the things the average miner mines

I hope this was edifying to you!


I hate to pull your pants down but as I said, that will affect MARKETS! Not the fundamental mining experience that every miner has since mining was put in Eve. You know, the thing that every PvP-er describes when they belittle miners for doing something boring and repetitive.

Learn to read more carefully. I said right up front markets will be affected, but that doesn't change warp to belt, approach rock of interest, target, activate laser...yawn... repeat, do one of a couple of the same things for years with the ore one you fill your hull.... rinse, repeat.

That is the mining experience that needs some improvements, that is what I meant. If you don't see that as the problem then you really have no idea what miners would like to see improve.


Issler


hello issler

i will work on reading you more closely! i did that, and found, once again, you said this:

"Noodling with sources of high end minerals will affect markets to be sure but the majority of miners won't notice a thing. They don't mine the ore those minerals come from."

you may notice that this is horribly wrong because the drone regions - the largest source of low-end minerals - produce the very minerals 'the majority of miners' mine.

in the future when you get 0wned and need to claim you never said any such thing, I recommend waiting a day or two so i won't immediately notice and 0wn you again, and to cut out the offending portion from the quote so your own post doesn't include both the thing you said and a denial of ever saying such thing

now that we've all agreed the CSM has done more to improve the life of the average miner than all CSMs before it, we can and should discuss further ways chairman for life the mittani will improve mining in CSM7 so we can populate the belts with more prey to devour

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.