These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Jita Park Speakers Corner

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Twostep - "want to play EVE without blobs, that is why wormholes were invented"

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#1 - 2012-02-01 15:17:11 UTC  |  Edited by: E man Industries
This was in respoce to small gang warfare....
Quote:
If you want to play EVE without blobs, that is why wormholes were invented (or at least what they have become). If you don't like blobs, you are like 100% of the people who joined corps like AHARM and moved into w-space.

You want PVP where every ******* ship (every ******* mod sometimes!) matters? Where if you are losing you are ******* out of luck? That is what some of us are living right now.

What I can bring to the nullsec game is every possible effort to bring that level of gameplay to more people. As far as I am concerned, my way of playing EVE is the real EVE...

Oh really?

So go to WH or get blobbed?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2 - 2012-02-01 15:42:25 UTC
And your point is? That he's wrong? That he's right? That he's right but he shouldn't have said it?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#3 - 2012-02-01 15:49:06 UTC
There is a lot of small scale PvP in 0.0..so yes I think he is wrong. Very wrong.
Many alliance do roams in 0.0 w/ 30 man fleets looking for other gangs.
There is also NPC 0.0, FW, and low sec.

But the blob of or go to WH is dumb and generally not fun. Big blobs take a huge amount of time, and are ussually at specific times. So scedual your life around eve or go to WH's.

Also WH pvp while great is very diffrent, it often prey and predetor rather than 2 gangs looking to fight. It is also much smaller in scale.

I found his dismisal of small gang warfare offensive. To have CSM to say blob or go home? Well gee thanks but last i checked most players did not enjoy the blob, alarm clock ops, pos bashing and having blobs roam 30 jumps away.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#4 - 2012-02-01 16:24:46 UTC
Thanks for putting words right into my mouth, it is so much easier than saying them myself. I *clearly* said that all other PVP is blob only, I mean, you can read that right, uh, where did I say that again?

Oh wait, what I *actually* said was that w-space is nearly always blob free. Like I said, you aren't going to get hotdropped. You aren't going to have a 100 man fleet bridged on your head.

What I said was that w-space style small gang PVP is *exactly* what people claim they are looking for. It is fun.

P.S. a 30 man gang sounds a whole lot like a blob to most people.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#5 - 2012-02-01 16:37:09 UTC  |  Edited by: E man Industries
Thanks for the reply.

You are correct that you did not say blob only. Only that to avoid the blob go to a WH.
Sorry I should maybe say mid sized gangs?

Maybe I should ask...
What is you position on small-medium scale gangs in EvE?
Do you think mid scale PvP has a place in 0.0?
Do you think mid sized gangs should be at risk from hot drops?
Do you think hot drops should be used mainly for defending or attacking sov rather than small scale roams into your space?
Should a larger gang be more mobile than a smaller no titan suported one?
Do you think mid sized gangs need more objectives and more reasons for defence fleets to form?
Do you think anything needs to be done to encourage mid sized fights?
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#6 - 2012-02-01 17:21:28 UTC
E man Industries wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

You are correct that you did not say blob only. Only that to avoid the blob go to a WH.
Sorry I should maybe say mid sized gangs?

Maybe I should ask...
What is you position on small-medium scale gangs in EvE?
Do you think mid scale PvP has a place in 0.0?
Do you think mid sized gangs should be at risk from hot drops?
Do you think hot drops should be used mainly for defending or attacking sov rather than small scale roams into your space?
Should a larger gang be more mobile than a smaller no titan suported one?
Do you think mid sized gangs need more objectives and more reasons for defence fleets to form?
Do you think anything needs to be done to encourage mid sized fights?


1) Uh, in favor of them? I don't think you are likely to find anyone who is looking for *less* small scale PVP in EVE.
2) Yes, though currently it isn't working. The nullsec anomoly nerf removed a lot of people from nullsec, which means a lot fewer targets for roaming gangs.
3) If it were up to me, I would delete supercaps from the game entirely. So no, they shouldn't be hotdropped.
4) I'm not sure what your definition of "hot drop" is here, and I suspect it differs from the generally accepted one. One does not "hot drop" a 1000 man BS fleet into a sov fight.
5) Of course a smaller gang should be more mobile. Is this a trick question?
6) In general, nullsec needs targets for all sizes of hostile forces. Not defending them should hurt the defender in a meaningful way.
7) Yes, see above answer.

You are coming off as having some sort of crazy agenda here, so why don't you come out and say it?

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#7 - 2012-02-01 18:00:24 UTC
No just crazy...
You answered all my questions and I thank you.

I had left with the impression that you where very anti small/mid scale combat.
This impression apears to have been in error.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-02-01 21:11:34 UTC
Two step wrote:
3) If it were up to me, I would delete supercaps from the game entirely.

Do you have an idea about a fair mechanic of doing so?

Quote:
6) In general, nullsec needs targets for all sizes of hostile forces. Not defending them should hurt the defender in a meaningful way.

Do you think there is something fundamentally wrong about the current targets (miners / ratters / gates / HD fleets / JBs / POCOs / station services / POSes / sov, roughly in order of forces needed to attack), or do you simply think there needs to be even more of them?
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#9 - 2012-02-01 21:47:08 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Two step wrote:
3) If it were up to me, I would delete supercaps from the game entirely.

Do you have an idea about a fair mechanic of doing so?


Nope. I doubt CCP would be willing to do it, so I haven't spent a whole lot of time thinking about the exact mechanics.

Quote:

Quote:
6) In general, nullsec needs targets for all sizes of hostile forces. Not defending them should hurt the defender in a meaningful way.

Do you think there is something fundamentally wrong about the current targets (miners / ratters / gates / HD fleets / JBs / POCOs / station services / POSes / sov, roughly in order of forces needed to attack), or do you simply think there needs to be even more of them?


Miners? In nullsec? Hahahahahaha.

Anyway, yeah, there is a problem with the current targets, in that there aren't really any. The ones you named are really not at all small gang targets, though I guess POCOs are somewhat close. The main problem with most of the current nullsec targets is that there is no incentive for the defender to actually defend them, vs. docking up and waiting for attackers to go elsewhere. Nullsec needs targets that cost the owners time/ISK/minerals/whatever to repair, but it also needs a reason to build those targets.

Another big help would be a lot more group PVE. If folks were scattered through nullsec in groups of 10-20 doing PVE that required PVP fits and logi, you would get a lot more worthwhile small gang fights.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#10 - 2012-02-01 22:56:23 UTC
Two step wrote:
Anyway, yeah, there is a problem with the current targets, in that there aren't really any. The ones you named are really not at all small gang targets, though I guess POCOs are somewhat close. The main problem with most of the current nullsec targets is that there is no incentive for the defender to actually defend them, vs. docking up and waiting for attackers to go elsewhere. Nullsec needs targets that cost the owners time/ISK/minerals/whatever to repair, but it also needs a reason to build those targets.

Another big help would be a lot more group PVE. If folks were scattered through nullsec in groups of 10-20 doing PVE that required PVP fits and logi, you would get a lot more worthwhile small gang fights.

YES!
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#11 - 2012-02-03 21:05:05 UTC
Two step wrote:
Thanks for putting words right into my mouth, it is so much easier than saying them myself. I *clearly* said that all other PVP is blob only, I mean, you can read that right, uh, where did I say that again?

Oh wait, what I *actually* said was that w-space is nearly always blob free. Like I said, you aren't going to get hotdropped. You aren't going to have a 100 man fleet bridged on your head.

What I said was that w-space style small gang PVP is *exactly* what people claim they are looking for. It is fun.

P.S. a 30 man gang sounds a whole lot like a blob to most people.



It may not be "blobs" by your definition, but looking at your killboard wormhole pvp definitely just looks like allot of ganks.

Also compared to null and low sec pvp in wormhole space is rare. This is true both per capita and per system.

Given these facts its hard to conclude wormhole mechanics are any sort of model to promote pvp in null or lowsec.


Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815