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It this time of the year "Escort Carrier" Reposting
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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#41 - 2012-02-01 13:46:34 UTC
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:

CCP need to take a look at the massive gap between subcapital ships and capitals.


What gap? Top of the line subcaps (Blackops, Marauders) are actually more expensive than a carrier and if you can fly either you're less than a month away from flying a carrier/dread respectively.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#42 - 2012-02-01 14:10:28 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:

CCP need to take a look at the massive gap between subcapital ships and capitals.


What gap? Top of the line subcaps (Blackops, Marauders) are actually more expensive than a carrier and if you can fly either you're less than a month away from flying a carrier/dread respectively.


A) Talking about hull size performance, role, and capabilities not price.
B) Not so much, I can fly a black ops now I'm several months from caps.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#43 - 2012-02-01 14:50:31 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
Caius Sivaris wrote:
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:

CCP need to take a look at the massive gap between subcapital ships and capitals.


What gap? Top of the line subcaps (Blackops, Marauders) are actually more expensive than a carrier and if you can fly either you're less than a month away from flying a carrier/dread respectively.


A) Talking about hull size performance, role, and capabilities not price.


The carrier is a convenient ship mover, but save that it's just a slow moving, easy to hit logistic ship bringing BC class DPS (practical, fighters miss a lot), that DPS being pretty easy to pop and costing a fortune to the owner.

Quote:

B) Not so much, I can fly a black ops now I'm several months from caps.


That must be flying that black ops at an awfully inadequate skill level. The only black ops that would somewhat excuse not having Drone Interfacing 5 is the Widow, save that skill a black op pilot should only have Advanced Spaceship Command 5 to train (two to three weeks) then a few more days days for Capital Ships 3, the carrier skills and some level of capital mods. if you are months away there is something pretty wrong.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#44 - 2012-02-01 15:26:28 UTC
The carriers are already Escort Carriers however with a tweak as logistic platform... Big smile
Gazmin VanBurin
Boma Bull Corp
#45 - 2012-02-01 16:37:40 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:

That must be flying that black ops at an awfully inadequate skill level. The only black ops that would somewhat excuse not having Drone Interfacing 5 is the Widow, save that skill a black op pilot should only have Advanced Spaceship Command 5 to train (two to three weeks) then a few more days days for Capital Ships 3, the carrier skills and some level of capital mods. if you are months away there is something pretty wrong.


if your only a month away from a carrier from a black ops, you must be planning on flying that carrier "at an awfully inadequate skill level" you have to train advanced space ship command to 5, carrier 4-5, all your capital repair and remote repair to 3-5 fighters to 3-4, and train logi 5 for triage. Its also good to make sure a handfull of suport skills are alittle hgiher than need be for a blops. Sure the jump drive skills save yu a bunch of time but its still 2-3 months after those to fly a carrier right.

Now for my opinion of a escort carrier, I think it shouldn't be allowed in high sec because even if not allowed to deploy drones it would just make station games even worse for bait or RR reasons. I like the idea of it being a modified orca or freighter. and yeah it should have around 300-400 ehp properly fit. I also like the idea of 5 fighters or 10 drones, aswell as having few fitting slots, like 3 highs, and a mix of 8 slots betweenthe mid and lows depending on race. price should be around 400mil. ill think of more stuff later.
Gellenter Pl
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-02-01 17:15:53 UTC
And what CCP thinks about this idea? Whether any of the dev reads this?
V'oba
Omnivores of Mediocrity
Omnivores
#47 - 2012-02-01 18:09:38 UTC
I don't have the experience to comment on what the capabilities of this kind of ship should be, but just for the awesomeness-factor I want to suggest that these be T2 versions of Tier 3 Battleships.

I'm just imagining how cool T2 skins would look on abaddons/ hypes/ rohks/ maels.
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
#48 - 2012-02-01 18:33:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Silas Shaw
Hrett wrote:
Give them a ship hanger that can carry up to 4 fitted frigs, or two fitted cruisers.

Make em really expensive so they dont blot out the sun.


See above: alliances/people that get 500 anythings as a "try it out in a blob" measure.

Also: "just how big is an unpacked frig or cruiser, anyway?"
Gazmin VanBurin
Boma Bull Corp
#49 - 2012-02-01 19:00:33 UTC
Ah yes that was one of the main points i wanted to touch on, they shouldnt be made expensive, no more than 500 mil at them most, because everyone knows that price issent a factor for many null sec block and building a ship thats worth it.

They key is to give it as many weaknesses as it has strengths.

A - make it as slow as a frighter with gate jump ability and they will have to move them hours to the new attack location rather than jumping trough 3 cynos.

B - 10 drones or 5 fighters is great but we are talking on a ship that has a huge sig, slow as a snail, and only has the HP of 2-3 battle ships, without the amazing capital self rapiars and no capital rep chain amungs themselves, i see them dieign quite fast to stealth bombers under only a minet or two of fire.

C - have to travel in a gang because they are just to easy of targets by themselves, which gives small roaming gnags or blops gangs new targets to look for that cant just cyno away.

I would find it funny if they could fit 1 capital class gun for luls but I woud actualy rather see them get a bonus to smart bomb range or damage (since i wouldn't want them to have more than 3-4 highs anyway, and not want them in high sec)

D - maybe make them use some sort of special fule , or special ability that requires special fule so they would have to be more time consuming to manage (im all for making the new fule blocks good for other things like running special mods or ships
Alain Badiou
Combine Honnete 0ber Advancer Mercantiles
#50 - 2012-02-01 20:20:34 UTC
Death Toll007 wrote:
The ship concept in history was to create something that was not as good as the real thing, but could sort of do it for a cheap price tag and in quick fashion. Usually old warship or transport ship hulls.

Therefore it should be
1. Racial specific
2. Not as good as a carrier by any strech.
3. Better than a BS, because BS were susceptible to them in conflict.
4. Cheap price tag, say about 30% more than a tier 3 BS?

Forget the orca... use the freighters as mentioned earlier in the post.

They have the hitpoints he recommends, strip the cargo bay for drone bay, and add visible openings to the models on their cargo bays to identify as fighter bays. If all five fighters are fit, then only about 150-250m3 should remain for other drones.

Like the flavor of limited fitting, but go 4/4/4 +2 appropriate for race(can be split). Prevents overtaking BS, and ensures role fitting.

Add maintenance bay, fuel bay for triage, and small corp bay.

Role Bonus: Able to launch five fighters or ten drones. (allows limited offensive role). Capital remote repair and local repair systems are PG/CPU reduced to fit two appropriate for race, can fit triage (if triage is active can run two capital remote/ local repair mods stable [run the role bonus numbers to apply to cap usage of mods only during triage] otherwise Cap use of capital mod with cap of BS).

Racial Battleship skill: Same as racial carrier bonuses

Scan res of ship equivalent of racial carrier.

Targeting range equivalent of racial battleship.

HP about 2x BS.

Capacitor equivalent of battleship (forces triage to utilize capital remote repair role).

Maybe this: Cannot be rigged due to extensive modification of hull

-DT



That was pretty well thought out (though I would keep it to just 5 drones or fighters). I support the above.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#51 - 2012-02-02 08:40:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
OK my proposal (escort ships)
New hull not a T2
They stay off the other caps turf, no triage or drone link, no logi bonus
most of there HP in there races tank type, and almost no hull
Can use gates
bandwidth for 5 fighters or 10 drones.
limited slot lay out and fittings.



Hear is my try at the Caldari one-



Karura

Hi-4 (3missile)
Mid-5
Low-3
Rig-3/400 (large)

CPU-825
POW-7,750
Capacitor-18,500/recharge 15570s

Drone bandwidth-250
Drone bay-55,000 m3

Shield-57,500/recharge12500s
Armour- 9,500
Structure- 5,000

Targeting range- 88k
Scan Resolution-185 mm
Gravimetric Sensor Strength-64 points
Signature Radius- 745m

Corp hanger-5,000 m3
Maintenance bay-550,000 m3

Max Velocity- 75 m/sec
Inertia Modifier- 0.075
Mass-390,000,000 kg
Capacity 725 m3
Warp speed- 3 au



Roll bonuses

75% reduction in duration and liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation
50% increase to shield booster repairer amount and capacitor use
200% bonus to Fighter control range
Can deploy 5 additional drones


Escort bonuses

5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level
10% bonus to fighter and drone tracking, optimal range and max velocity per level

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
apAzed
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-02-02 10:08:58 UTC
Hound Halfhand wrote:
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
You know, the idea is sound.. his implementation of it would be bad.

Something that can use up to 5 fighters, has the ehp of a decently tanked BS, can't jump and can use gates would actually be quite cool.

Not sure how I'd balance it though, problem being that isk does not balance ships really because you'll get alliances that just roll with 'lets take 500 of them'.

It'd be a nice hop on the long train to getting a carrier at any rate.

I don't know.... sounds cool, just not sure it'd work in EVE.


I agree. 1 fighter per skill level and some kind of fleet roll that does not involve remote repairing. I was thinking that maybe it can fit 7 or 8 small turrets/launchers and get a bonus to tracking/optimal (similar to the guys flak suggestion above me). Would be good against small ships but not battlecruisers and battleships. Also its bonuses would revolve around projected ECCM, remote sensor boosters, remote sensor dampening, etc. Also possibly 5 drones in addition to 5 fighters also it should have a hell of a tank. It should be T2, size/mass of the Orca but heavily modified hull, uses jumpgates, not cynos and more expensive than a marauder or faction battleship. Really skill intensive, give something real for 100m sp guys to train for.

On a side note, make it something a dreadnought can easily track and hit, at the same time improving the dreadnought's roll.

Again, EVE players have been asking for the "Escort Carriers" for years and it is probably something CCP wants to look into. Probably the most desired next ship after the "T3 frigates".


Making them more expensive than marauder would be a bad idea, as people would just go with normal carriers, except for high sec wars, that is. Instead, make them as expensive than the orca, and more focused on solo work. We already have carriers which generally fulfil the role of an oversized logi - there is no need for more.
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#53 - 2012-02-02 10:38:52 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:

Hear is my try at the Caldari one-



Karura

Hi-4 (3missile)
Mid-5
Low-3
Rig-3/400 (large)

CPU-825
POW-7,750
Capacitor-18,500/recharge 15570s

Drone bandwidth-250
Drone bay-55,000 m3

Shield-57,500/recharge12500s
Armour- 9,500
Structure- 5,000

Targeting range- 88k
Scan Resolution-185 mm
Gravimetric Sensor Strength-64 points
Signature Radius- 745m

Corp hanger-5,000 m3
Maintenance bay-550,000 m3

Max Velocity- 75 m/sec
Inertia Modifier- 0.075
Mass-390,000,000 kg
Capacity 725 m3
Warp speed- 3 au



Roll bonuses

75% reduction in duration and liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation
50% increase to shield booster repairer amount and capacitor use
200% bonus to Fighter control range
Can deploy 5 additional drones


Escort bonuses

5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level
10% bonus to fighter and drone tracking, optimal range and max velocity per level


So no useful bonus, pitiful DPS, just good at being a brick. Those would only be used in station games, like we need more of those.
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#54 - 2012-02-02 11:49:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Vicky Somers
Trinkets friend made a pretty good point on page 2. In reply to his idea of having a mini-carrier / dread for POS bashing in C1/C2 wormholes I'm guess this is a role that could be added to a T2 battleship like black ops by use of a mini-siege mode like module. For 5 or 10 minutes they get a boost to their damage output OR give the fleet a boost so that all large weapons do something like 400% more dps. To balance things out their tracking and/or explosion radius is completely crippled and they can't receive any RR but get a resistance bonus or slight boost in local rep. Thus turning all battleships/tier 3 BCs into mini-dreads that still need support to stay alive.

The mini-siege mod cannot be activated in high sec.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#55 - 2012-02-02 12:34:18 UTC
In my opinion the "escort carriers" are the regular carriers in current EVE. The "true carriers" are the super-moms in the current EVE.

That out of the way I'm not against the idea of some kind of "escort carrier" altho - in my oopinion the easiest part would be removal of jump drive from a carrier and just castrating it somewhat. Like, for example, orca against roqual. So these "escort carriers" would be sort of the same as Orcas are to Roquals.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Gazmin VanBurin
Boma Bull Corp
#56 - 2012-02-02 15:58:53 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
In my opinion the "escort carriers" are the regular carriers in current EVE. The "true carriers" are the super-moms in the current EVE.

That out of the way I'm not against the idea of some kind of "escort carrier" altho - in my oopinion the easiest part would be removal of jump drive from a carrier and just castrating it somewhat. Like, for example, orca against roqual. So these "escort carriers" would be sort of the same as Orcas are to Roquals.


yeah i think thats the general idea, a mini carrier that cant jump trough a cyno, can use gates, less skill intensive, les ehp, less fitting grid and slots.
Kn1v3s 999
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-02-02 16:42:47 UTC
Yup, that' s what EVE need, moar capital ships

/thread
Gazmin VanBurin
Boma Bull Corp
#58 - 2012-02-02 17:22:17 UTC
with out the ability to jump its more like a expensive fat dominix than a capital
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-02-02 20:51:44 UTC
If you want an oversized logi, then request carriers be allowed back in highsec, but with that dreadnoughts would also need to be allowed back in, though I would restrict siege and triage modules to security less than. 5, other wise make it a combat oreinted carrier for high sec. HP 2-3x battle ship as was said before. 4 high, 11 mid/low slots devided per race. 15% drone damage increase 10% drone HP and maybe resistance bonus for the ship. 1 additonal drone per level. Bandwith 250. Drone bay around 3000 and a special fighter bay of 25000. No turret or launchers. Role bonus of +100% fighter bandwith needs (this prevents launching 5 fighters and 5 web drones) size and sig should be that of an orca.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
The Ratface
Trillium Invariant
Honorable Third Party
#60 - 2012-02-02 23:25:26 UTC
I see an easy solution to this (well, for us not really for CCP)

Just introduce Tech 3 battleships and have subsystems capable of turning it into a mini dread or carrier allowed in highsec. Make the carrier a middle ground between logis and carriers rep wise and maybe half the fighter power of a carrier. Make the dread subsystem give it the ability to fit a mini siege module that gives it a large bonus to large weapon damage but a tracking penalty just like a dread so it can only hit other sieged or triaged T3 and structures as well as capitals.

Obviously these would be fairly expensive since its Tech 3 but the ability to bring it into highsec and the fact that it has a variety of things it can do would make it worth the extra cost.