Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You know... I think we agree on something here.... Cov Ops should be the intelligence gatherers and recon specialists in this game. Unfortunately, the two primary intelligence tools in this game, "Local Chat" and Dscan are available equally to all ships, so the role of the Cov Ops ship can easily be diminished by a "suicide frigate."

However, this is a problem with the intelligence system in this game, Replace Local with an Intelligence Tool

ROFL, nice try, but this thread is not about guessing games. If it means so much, I have CovOps on my main, and yes I am experienced flying them. They were, in fact, one of the first T2 ships I learned in 2006.

Except in most FPS games you can't cloak straight after spawning. Or choose where to spawn, view stats for the number of people at specific spawn points, or view the number of deaths there in the last hour, or get someone else to spawn there first to check it out... etc.


Using a remote control probe to give you risk-free intel on a system including local and details of every ship on grid: officially the height of skill and finesse.


Roflcopter.

You have a four year old forum alt, yet don't know what covert ops ships or recons are used for? And apparently can't scout? Could you post on your main please?


Protip: For PvP fleets/explorers suicide t1 frigs and shuttles can't pop core/combat probes. And they don't make very good scouts, because you lose them at the first camp you hit. With a covert ops ship you can scout, avoid the camps and find another way round.

Hence recon5 pilots or covert ops ships making the best scouts.

Looking at deaths in the last hour/24 hours is a pretty good indicator of heavily camped systems, as is to see number of pilots in space etc. It won't save you from every camp, but it might make you think twice about jumping un-scouted into HED-GP.


If anyone ever managed to die using this probe thing, they should just be banned from the game on principle. Null/low are ridiculously safe as it is, these just make it worse. I presume you'd want them to be capable of scouting JB networks too?


Who on earth brought up cynos? Did you just read the bonuses page for recons and try and make it look like you know what they're used for? Roflcopters. Because I totally use covert ops and recons for cynoing my carriers about. Guess again.

Also, you didn't reply to this point: [t1 frigates/shuttle] don't make very good scouts, because you lose them at the first camp you hit. With a covert ops ship you can scout, avoid the camps and find another way round.

Anyway, let's see your skills first hand then, eh? If you can add at least a little credibility to your claims, by perhaps showing you've lived in whs, null sec or low sec for a short while then perhaps people will take your claims that life is too hard out there more seriously.

Deaths in the past 24 hours can be meaningless in null, different groups are usually time zone oriented. You have about a 25% chance of the kills reflecting a current camp. Conversely, well known camps may have fewer kills, as people know to avoid them, and that usually indicates they are present more often.

Cyno is a joke on CovOps and recon. Kestrels are a ship of choice I see most often.

And as for scouting, most fleets improvise this without blinking, unless they actually get something dedicated.
Half the time, they send an inty, and if the inty sees trouble, he just plants and holds the gate cloak while his fleet burns over. By the time he loses it, he only needs to last a few seconds before his buddies counter-ambush.

The probe thing probably won't fly, because too many players are in a mad rush to go pew, have limited play time, and doing things carefully with deliberation takes too long.

Pity, it really isn't a bad idea.

You can effectively scout with the current tools available. I see no need for this.

Hi Simi! It's me, that guy from the thread on balance to local chat, and the subs in space.

If you wanna talk about cloaking, welcome to my world!

MUAH! :*

Simi quoting Mary: Sorry I missed that, it was not in your original post.

Yes, I am totally busted, you got me, I read the page on bonuses. About 6 years ago. When the manticore had one more cruise launcher than the other three races. Seriously, stick to the topic, quit trying to discredit me by hinting I don't play.

If anything, I probably play from a different angle, so variances in experience would not amount to much.
Look, so far you've said recons are useless ships, that covert ops aren't any good for scouting. Screw it, I'm just going to list the things that make this thread dumb.
Nikk Reply: I love lists, Dave Letterman makes them such fun!

Simi quoting Mary: "Most people gives credit to the detail that most people don't train covert ops and recons."
Almost everyone trains covert ops, and most train recons.
Nikk Reply: I feel you are taking credit for someone else's information, at best. Who exactly told you that?
Are you employed at CCP?

Simi quoting Mary: "As to my complaining about covert ops ships combat ability"
You think recons and cloak-fit T3s have low combat ability.
Nikk Reply: Well, gotta say, if you cannot equip the T1 version of a cloaking ship to fight better, are you sure you want to be pointing that out here?

Simi quoting Mary: "Interceptors are not for scouting, their use in this area is not intended"
You think ceptors make bad scouts.
Nikk Reply: I do too. Outside of flying really fast, nothing they do gives them any advantage in scouting.
On the other hand, I like really fast flying, it is FUN!

Simi quoting Mary: "these ship types are not good for anything else of game significance."
You think recons aren't good for anything of significance
Nikk Reply: We know her context was fleet oriented, specifically towards scouting.
Maybe you would like a CovOps to mount a shield repper too?

Simi quoting Mary: "The scout ships are intended to have great sensors and probes. Same with the recons."
That is not the purpose of recons.
Nikk Reply: There are combat recons, and force recons.
Combat recons are very capable offensive boats. They are popular for this.
Force recons, using the game's own description, are big CovOp boats. They do not fight as well as combat recons, but they can cloak, and they get bonuses to cyno use. Noone in their right mind uses one of these for cyno, unless they have no choice for a more practical boat. 115 million isk vs 300k isk fora kestrel. By comparison, the Kestrel IS disposable.

Simi quoting Mary: "Two, it is a bypass to cloaking ship penalties. After all, until you pop up in the new system, you cannot see these ships."
Just lol.
Nikk Reply: You must like it this way. That is nothing to be ashamed of, but don't tell people it is fair just because you want it to stay as is.
And just so you know, the point of cloaking is to give your opponent no warning, by using deception. Clearly this is not working as intended thanks to local blabbing, but gates don't have that problem. Unless you believe the people dying in gate camps were suicides?

Simi quoting Mary: "it's not like cloaking? True, with regular cloaking, you still have a possible warning in local, and cloaked ships cannot fight as effectively. It sounds like an even greater advantage, now that you point it out."
You trying to justify that being in a different system is like being cloaked "only worse". Lol.
Nikk Reply: You are right, but people keep ignoring the warning lights on gates that indicate hostile ships on the other side... OH, there are no warnings... It's too bad we can't scout these things more effectively!

Simi quoting Mary: "The probe itself could be expensive, but probably not more than a cheap t1 frigate."
Your probe is going to be expensive, hundreds of thousands of ISK expensive. Lol.
Nikk Reply: T1 frigate pricing includes your range, I assume this was an agreement with Mary.
Not sure how you estimated pricing.

Simi quoting Mary: "Only people who train up scouting ships like CovOps and Recons could use it in the first place."
So this probing ship is going to be for "well prepared solo players", yet it's going to require an alt with this new ship to scout for them. And that alt has to have covert ops and recons trained anyway. Yeah that isn't redundant at all


Nikk Reply: Wait, what is WRONG with well prepared solo players?
Are you saying the only valid way to play this game is with a minimum number of people as a group?
I feel you are trying to diminish solo play enjoyment here, are you sure CCP agrees with this?

The "point" of cloaking, in terms of scouting a gate, is that they can't shoot you on the other side. Cloak up, MWD off, and you'll very rarely get killed. Until you want to never get killed? Another Eve easy mode request?


No, but I've played the game. I don't know anyone, in my entire alliance, or my previous alliance, that cannot fly at least a covert ops. If not recons and T3s.


Damn, maybe next time I go out I'll leave the falcon at home and scout for my fleet with a rook then. OH WAIT NO.


Yes, finally! You get it! You are playing an MMO!

Solo scouting is still possible with an alt, or if you want to get around solo you can use the ship classes that already exist for it.

So, hearing what you are saying, you have an entire alliance where everyone you know skills about, can fly covops.
That is a lot of stealth. Do they also practice probing to this majority?

You know a lot of people that found value in covops. This might be something they like, maybe not. I never knew of such a concentration of pilots able to fly covops like that before.

This idea is not for everyone. Never was meant to be, just for covops really.

This is a tool. It is not cheap, but a lot of the cost is skilling up and buying the ship and probe launcher. And of course, the probe(s).
It won't be fast. You trade speed for caution. The probe cannot cloak, so it could be destroyed almost at once.
Your ship, hopefully, went to a safe place and cloaked before activating the probe that was left near the gate.

My point, is that it won't cause a lot of issues at gate camps. Unless they were trying to catch people just to milk kill mails, in which case the covops guys won't be as likely to pop, if they use this tool.

OP I would like to point out that a well piloted Interceptor or Frigate can scout very well with little fear of gate camps without bubbles in almost all aspects, for camps with bubbles the true path to safety requires making a decision to either burn away from the gate and warp off, or burn to the gate and jump through.

In either instance, its fairly easy to navigate through gate camps with little to no risk, just be smart; when in doubt fly a CovOps/Recon. Stop trying to re-invent this wheel, its already here and is perfectly effective at its role.

Edit- Thats a No by the way.