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Cloak/MWD trick + Kill Rights Page
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Bionic Wolf
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-01-31 22:54:02 UTC
I have no doubt this will have been mentioned by other people, because it's common sense.

Cloak/MWD trick is a clear exploit, please fix. Don't think I need to elaborate much further, the cov-op's cloaks were designed for a purpose and people using this exploit are effectively using a cov-ops cloak on any ship they please. As if there isn't a billion ways to avoid dying to low sec camps already.

and...

When is kill rights going to have pages like kill mails do rather than lagging horribly every time you click on the page.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2012-01-31 23:16:17 UTC
it's not an exploit, confirmed by the devs.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#3 - 2012-01-31 23:29:35 UTC
Quote:
Cloak/MWD trick is a clear exploit, please fix. Don't think I need to elaborate much further, the cov-op's cloaks were designed for a purpose and people using this exploit are effectively using a cov-ops cloak on any ship they please. As if there isn't a billion ways to avoid dying to low sec camps already.


Nope. Years ago, CCP released an update which broke the MWD cloak trick as a side effect of another fix.

Less than a day later, they said... "Ooops! We didn't mean to break the MWD + cloak trick. Sorry, hotfix going out tomorrow to fix this"...or something to that effect.


Care to elaborate on the billion ways to avoid dying to lowsec camp? Currently, I can think of

a) Flying a covops ship, or

b) Buying an alt to scout for you.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#4 - 2012-02-01 00:13:06 UTC
I never quite understood the MWD+Cloak trick, it's been around for years, is nearly flawless, yet is generally used pretty rarely.

You would have thought it's use would become more and more common as time goes on, but it's still pretty rare to see people using it. Even people not wanting to gimp their fits isn't really a good reason not to use it when in LS you can just refit in destination system.

Meh, anyway just my observation on it. Other than finding it odd people don't use it more I don't particularly care either way, if you absolutely need to kill "everything" that passes through, move to NPC null.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#5 - 2012-02-01 00:23:01 UTC
It's a perfectly fine game mechanic. It was removed very briefly long ago, I think only 24hrs before being put back in. As for the kill rights page, that I do support. Mine is pretty short these days but back when I was a proper villain it would crash the client if I accidentally clicked it.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Bionic Wolf
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-02-01 00:23:56 UTC
oh man.... just wrote a long post which hasn't posted.....fail, one of these days i'll learn to copy before hitting post.

Try again....

I disagree with CCP's stance with that, if what your saying is true because firstly it takes alot of the point of cov-op's cloaks away, I mean in my opinion too many ships can already use cov-ops cloaks and with that mechanic being the way it is every ship is potentially invulnerable, which is surely the point of the cov-ops cloak... to be able to go behind enemy lines etc. The standard cloaks are supposed to allow you hide, but not warp cloaked (lol massive difference between decloak insta warp and warping cloaked), and not move quickly away while cloaked, it's not described as a tool for insta warping. They should better define it's purpose if they feel thats what it's for or fix it.

Then I wrote a long paragraph about the many ways to dodge a low sec pvper/pirate which I cba to go into so much detail again, but basically stabs, map statisitcs, ecm-drones (also massively need fixing), being in fast aligning ships, ships with MWD's, the cloak/MWD people as previously mentioned, i'm probably forgetting more too.

So a gang needs a fast locker, something with a long range scram, multiple web bonus'd ships, infinite point, damage ships to actually kill the target/s, all ships must be able to tank sentries or logistics required too, and this is all taking into account the other side isn't competent at fighting back, so a small gang is required to still not catch cov-ops, cloak/mwd people, people that check map statistics and those with alt's.

Then the stupid thing.... people whine 'cos your "blobbing" them, when game mechanics force you to bring a gang to be able to catch much. Plus if your set-up like that, your pretty useless for people who actually want to fight.
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#7 - 2012-02-01 00:38:02 UTC
Not all ships can perform the mwd+cloak trick, basically only cruiser hulls and below (maybe a nano-cane) can pull it off. Armor BC's and bigger are just to slow to align to do it. Even many haulers can't manage it. Regardless, I see absolutely nothing wrong with ships fit to run low sec gate camps being able to run low sec gate camps with reasonable success. It doesn't bother me now and it didn't bother me when I camped low sec gates for a living. It's really no different than fitting stabs.

This trick also has the disadvantage of forcing you to remain on field for 10s or more. That's a pretty long time when you're trying to escape hostiles. I've decloaked my share of people trying to use the mwd+cloak trick and subsequently nuked them. This setup does not make you invincible nor is it fool proof.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#8 - 2012-02-01 00:39:12 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
Not all ships can perform the mwd+cloak trick, basically only cruiser hulls and below (maybe a nano-cane) can pull it off. Armor BC's and bigger are just to slow to align to do it. Even many haulers can't manage it. Regardless, I see absolutely nothing wrong with ships fit to run low sec gate camps being able to run low sec gate camps with reasonable success. It doesn't bother me now and it didn't bother me when I camped low sec gates for a living. It's really no different than fitting stabs.

This trick also has the disadvantage of forcing you to remain on field for 10s or more. That's a pretty long time when you're trying to escape hostiles. I've decloaked my share of people trying to use the mwd+cloak trick and subsequently nuked them. This setup does not make you invincible nor is it fool proof.

Actually I've seen a dominix pull this trick off repeatedly Lol

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Bionic Wolf
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-02-01 00:46:43 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
Not all ships can perform the mwd+cloak trick, basically only cruiser hulls and below (maybe a nano-cane) can pull it off. Armor BC's and bigger are just to slow to align to do it. Even many haulers can't manage it. Regardless, I see absolutely nothing wrong with ships fit to run low sec gate camps being able to run low sec gate camps with reasonable success. It doesn't bother me now and it didn't bother me when I camped low sec gates for a living. It's really no different than fitting stabs.

This trick also has the disadvantage of forcing you to remain on field for 10s or more. That's a pretty long time when you're trying to escape hostiles. I've decloaked my share of people trying to use the mwd+cloak trick and subsequently nuked them. This setup does not make you invincible nor is it fool proof.


lol yeah this isn't true about cruiser hulls and below, and now your suggesting bringing a frigate or something to start decloaking people quickly enough too (So an even larger quantity of people in gang required)? Also its nowhere near aslong as 10 seconds needed. I agree that SOME ships should be able to run camps, thats what transport ships are for! This is exactly my point, that CCP brought in ships to fill a gap which another mechanic makes pointless, if anybody can do the cloak/mwd trick in their badger, why bother training for a Crane?
Kiroma Halandri
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-02-01 00:55:44 UTC
I was planning on putting a Cloak and a MicroWarpdrive on an Industrial, now that you mention it...
[center]I'm not Anti-Social,    **I just don't like you.[/center]**
Bionic Wolf
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-02-01 01:02:10 UTC
Kiroma Halandri wrote:
I was planning on putting a Cloak and a MicroWarpdrive on an Industrial, now that you mention it...


Yeah cos you never ever see it Roll
Kiroma Halandri
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-02-01 01:04:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiroma Halandri
Are you rejecting my friendship?






As for skill requirements, I think I should mention that this is my alt.
[center]I'm not Anti-Social,    **I just don't like you.[/center]**
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#13 - 2012-02-01 01:32:10 UTC
Bionic Wolf wrote:
King Rothgar wrote:
Not all ships can perform the mwd+cloak trick, basically only cruiser hulls and below (maybe a nano-cane) can pull it off. Armor BC's and bigger are just to slow to align to do it. Even many haulers can't manage it. Regardless, I see absolutely nothing wrong with ships fit to run low sec gate camps being able to run low sec gate camps with reasonable success. It doesn't bother me now and it didn't bother me when I camped low sec gates for a living. It's really no different than fitting stabs.

This trick also has the disadvantage of forcing you to remain on field for 10s or more. That's a pretty long time when you're trying to escape hostiles. I've decloaked my share of people trying to use the mwd+cloak trick and subsequently nuked them. This setup does not make you invincible nor is it fool proof.


lol yeah this isn't true about cruiser hulls and below, and now your suggesting bringing a frigate or something to start decloaking people quickly enough too (So an even larger quantity of people in gang required)? Also its nowhere near aslong as 10 seconds needed. I agree that SOME ships should be able to run camps, thats what transport ships are for! This is exactly my point, that CCP brought in ships to fill a gap which another mechanic makes pointless, if anybody can do the cloak/mwd trick in their badger, why bother training for a Crane?


MWD cycle is 10s, no more and no less. They must wait out the entire mwd cycle before decloaking in order to insta warp after it's down. This only works on ships that can achieve their uncloaked warp speed in under 10s with the cloak activated. I suspect a travel fit BS could pull this off, but a plated up one most certainly won't. Haulers are the same way. My impel can do the mwd+cloak trick with 3 or more nano's but if I'm running cargo expanders instead, it fails very badly. I'd rather not think about how badly it would fail on something like a plated abaddon.

Thus I call troll or just plain stupid on your part. If troll good job, you got me.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#14 - 2012-02-01 02:08:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanthra
exploits have no counters

put drones guarding a fast agile ship....like inty.... and they run around going for the bump counters this

hence not an exploit



worried about the inty popping? bumping does not generate aggro. No gate guns, no concord. Yes you will be paying an inty share of loot for the nights take in even if they fail to bump a few targets. But without them more ships get away. PIck what you think is the lesser of 2 evils here.

Its not like the inty has easy money. Did this crap in bubbles in null. You keep flying around getting frustrated when a pro is doing this. You know he is most likely gone at some point but still you go trolling (fishing meaning of the word lol). Or you find them, they lock you, you lock them and best you can hope for is your peeps kill them so you can ho the mail with what for me was some craptacular rocket crow damage (pre rocket when I did my bubble dredging). Once bumped they know death is coming...smart play is to not die alone (always tried to have some company when dying myself). Usually the inty is the weakest ship in this setup and easiily in range so a very logical choice to go for an easy kill out the door.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#15 - 2012-02-01 02:49:55 UTC
Quote:
I disagree with CCP's stance with that, if what your saying is true because firstly it takes alot of the point of cov-op's cloaks away, I mean in my opinion too many ships can already use cov-ops cloaks and with that mechanic being the way it is every ship is potentially invulnerable, which is surely the point of the cov-ops cloak... to be able to go behind enemy lines etc. The standard cloaks are supposed to allow you hide, but not warp cloaked (lol massive difference between decloak insta warp and warping cloaked), and not move quickly away while cloaked, it's not described as a tool for insta warping. They should better define it's purpose if they feel thats what it's for or fix it.


No, it doesn't. Covops cloaking ships don't need to fit their ship specifically to do it (they have a cloak anyway), they can MWD + cloak to reach their full MWD speed as opposed to just above their base speed. They do not have to wait for a full MWD cycle, they just have to align and warp. They can be used to remain uncatchable anywhere, not just on lowsec gates. Try again.

What do you mean "better define its purpose"? The only person who thinks that it's exclusively a hiding tool is you.


Quote:
Then I wrote a long paragraph about the many ways to dodge a low sec pvper/pirate which I cba to go into so much detail again, but basically stabs, map statisitcs, ecm-drones (also massively need fixing), being in fast aligning ships, ships with MWD's, the cloak/MWD people as previously mentioned, i'm probably forgetting more too.


Stabs and fast aligning do not help you when you have heavily sensor-boosted heavy interdictors. MWDs and ECM drones do not work in any way, shape, or form unless the camp consists of two people in slow ships. It never does.

Map statistics are the only even remotely passable option, but even then it doesn't tell you all that much. It only works AFTER a bunch of people have already died to the camp, and even then you don't know which gates are camped or if it's even camped at all.
Amaroq Dricaldari
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-02-02 05:23:38 UTC
If I remember correctly, someone at CCP said that it was not an exploit, but a tactic.

This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-02-02 08:51:43 UTC
if it was the same as covert-opps why are there scores of Blockade runners in low sec with smaller cargo bay's and hardly any deep space transports with a much larger cargo bay?
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#18 - 2012-02-02 10:00:36 UTC
not an exploit, regular game mechanic. go 0.0 for better camps.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-02-02 11:55:07 UTC
Bionic Wolf wrote:
butthurt Oops Cloak/MWD trick is a clear exploit, please fix.

lol let me guess. You are a game developer, Q/A specialist, and code programer amirite Lol ? Its not that 1) You enjoy humanities number 1 past time we have been doing since the dawn of time; camping be it couch/computer/bar picking up chicks/blind waiting for an animal to come by 2) As if high scan res means you should win everytime. I mean, just because "You: Well, I got here first so we are going to set up shop with 3x scan res rig, 2x sensor booster, Signal amp, remote sensor booster and Charlie Sheen Winning(tm) every ship that comes by." No skill involved at all because scan res stacks insanely high. You catch everything, eventually no one goes through your gate camp. Completly defeats the purpose of your bitchwhine. Cloak/MWD lets everyone have a fighting chance, be glad that you can't catch everything because if you did....no one would no longer be your prey and then you lose every time.
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#20 - 2012-02-02 15:30:23 UTC
Using the MWD/Cloak trick is far from foolproof, especially for larger ships. I've caught a few including a faction fit rattlesnake.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
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