Jita Park Speakers Corner

On the subject of lowsec, the CSM position in the minutes seems to be that lowsec needs either better PVE rewards, or safer PVE, or both.

Do you agree with this position?

From my point of view, it looks like 0.0 players trying to "fix" lowsec by turning it into a copy of 0.0.

Those of us living in lowsec, do it for the PVP, and would rather have the lowsec PVP fixed than anything else. Look for example at the responses to my proposal (in sig) of capping sec losses in lowsec. Turning lowsec into the place the casual player goes to blow up ships makes a lot more sense than copying the 0.0 mechanics.

I don't think LowSec needs better PVE rewards, I think it needs a review of the current rewards to make sure that they are actually hitting their mark. I think there's some rewards in Low Sec that are inconsistent (lots of drops don't drop) and some sites need to spawn more in certain places (gas clouds). Since low sec tends to be neglected, I'm sure the consistency of these rewards never get looked over - unlike the null sec exploration sites that had a thorough review recently.

I live in low sec 100% of my time, fight, make some cash when possible - the population issue in low sec is two fold imho.

I think the object that is missing from low sec is a low end "organizational" revenue - (a la moon goo, but not moon goo please). POCOs might fix this if you can overcome a couple factors of low sec organizational revenue, but as we all know there's a big disparity between risk, income and investment. I mostly highly recommend a review of the player level revenue to be found and a way to look at what low sec organizations can do for revenue.

In my honest opinion, Low Sec is the retiring home for EVE Veterans. After you get tired of null sec and you want to just do some lighter relaxed PVP, you end up in Low Sec. A lot of younger ambitious pilots in other corporations I talk to in my area are "building up" to go into Null Sec to experience it out there - but they tend to live in High Sec - not low sec . I've been there done Null Sec and am more interested in "light" power enforcement in my immediate zone of influence. Which does overlap some null sec not too far away, but not something we do often.

So long as there is not even a whisper of a suggestion that the pirate factions have a CONCORD equivalent, then I strongly endorse this idea. Pirate factions shouldn't care even a little bit if capsuleers shoot each other.

At the very least I would like to see CONCORD reformed.

LOL, agreed. That idea is weird...



As I've previously stated, I'm all for increased NPC interaction. For example, I'd like to be able to bribe CONCORD and corrupt it.

I've actually linked your thread to the appropriate people and started a thread on the internal CSM forums about it. I think it's well worth looking into because I've always hated the way the current sec status system works.

As for the rest, I don't think that anyone wants the mechanics to be identical, but having a system with similarities wouldn't be a terrible thing. You brought up this:



POCOs own and are basically an offshoot of the 'multiple objective' stuff that was destined for the initial Dominion sov design. There is supposed to be a lot more stuff like that.



Absolutely. Question though - would you rather see low-sec stay as it it or evolve a bit to where players could have a bit more say so or attachment to a certain area based on NPC interaction / resources / etc.... ?

I just read it.

I'm conflicted on saying it is a good "first step". It's not that it isn't. It is, but at the same time I wonder about the integrity of the Low Security Exploration sites that are over 3,4 or 5 years old. The sites maybe need a review on how often they appear, the consistency of the rewards. More variety in sites need to show up in different constellations. Gas sites are restricted to very few constellations to my knowledge (I've never ever seen one anywhere near our area to this day).

On top of it all, I have the worst freaking luck on the planet when it comes to exploration sites - I will go into sites and not even the faction SPAWN will even be there. Not to mention when they are there, (probably 1 in 5 with my luck) it will drop a **** drop.

Yay?

The thing is.... I don't live in "Shield Module" NPC space. I live in Armor NPC Space. SO no new Invulnerability fields for me. So, no, this doesn't affect me - and would require me to fly over 25 jumps and through high sec to Gurista space to have a chance at this even remotely. Meaning I have to buy a new ship, move it into place, set it up a jump clone in the area, and all.

Sure, now that I realize it (and it's known to me as a LS dweller that most medium mod drops come from low sec) I'll probably go give it a try - but it's hardly a "boon" to all of low sec. A small slice may have gotten categorically better.

This is why I'm saying the sites have to be revisited and cleaned up and made sure they are all functioning as intended. Because I've gone into sites that should have been at LEAST 100-200M after 3-4 escalations and gotten absolutely nothing but shite. Sure, there's always the "randomness" - but really... Give me SOMETHING after 3-4 hours of dragging 4-5 guys around for some fun and all we get is a 2M ISK FACTION CRYSTAL??? Seriously?

So, back to my statement, all the sites need a nice touch up, clean up, and polish on what their intended rewards are supposed to be and should be more consistent. Blood Raiders in Low Sec seem to be the absolute worst chance of drops and drop rates - I've resorted to recommending we go a few jumps to Sansha Low Sec when hitting exploration sites because we seem to have a little more love there.

The other thing I heard while out flying one day as my mates and I were taking out a site with 3-4 of us was, "Oh, don't you think that's overkill? I could do that in a solo Legion."

Let's make it clear the first point that my mates and I FLY TOGETHER to enjoy FLYING TOGETHER. Second, the rewards not catered towards group play, mean that you inevitably always end up with not more population per system, but instead you end up with more solo pilots trying to partake in Low Sec activities - as a LS Dweller, I love the easy prey. Sure, this is a phenomenon in a lot of EVE PVE (Incursions obvious exceptions, and Sleepers a close second - usually done with dual or triple boxing instead).

Low Sec is generally the king of small gang warfare - it pays off to be smaller in most cases. But the rewards are solo oriented? Need more Gang oriented rewards. Low Sec Incursions are the most hopeful of all the types of PVE for low sec dwellers - offering clear PVP opportunities - but the traveling circus basically leaves you waiting for one to actually show up.

On a typical month my corp might incur and lose between 2-5B ISK - but Low Sec generates NOWHERE NEAR that amount for us. The militia pilots are capable of providing that for themselves, but we also tend to blow up a lot of stealth bombers - to make sure that they don't walk away with all the cash in hand. My guys resorting to ransoming them for the site for ISK rather than a killmail isn't unusual. (10M ISK, we leave you alone - they make between 15-25M ISK on a typical Sunday).



As long as we're talking about this. I have something I'd like to officially petition you for as a CSM Member Seleene.

I've had a bug report for almost TWO MONTHS now. With no filtering or response. The bug report was put in on 2011.12.05 18:44

The bug is that Security Status is VERY broken Since Crucible, not sure if you know or care - but only the final blow (seems) to get the sec status hit for killing NPCs when before Crucible we would all share group sec status gain when we all killed one NPC together. Rewards are still shared, but not the sec status. So, we're resorting to solo rat (not fun) instead of go out on a gang PVP roam hitting belts for some sec status gain between all the pew pew. A lot of my guys (and me included) don't want to go full pirate for various reasons - so we operate in that fuzzy area between -2 and -4.

I put a petition to confirm this was "Not as intended" and was asked to put a Bug report in.

Absolutely no response yet.

Many feel this is some "ninja nerf" to sec gain - I think this is actually a consequence of a fix for sharing Faction Standings in a fleet when completing a Storyline mission that inadvertently affected the security status gain on Concord. Others have claimed that this was a bug that was fixed - and NPC kills for standing should only have ever given it to one person. This doesn't make sense to me because rewards are distributed to all for killing a character and faction loss applies to all characters killing an NPC ship (to my knowledge).

The obvious detriment of this change is that our group activities are being hurt, where pre Crucible we'd have 4-5 of us just for some fun and adventure would go roaming belts and hitting PVP, gain some sec status, maybe find a faction drop - get a couple kills and move on - we have almost no incentive to do so - since the most consistent thing about that single activity is gaining sec status (pitiful amounts really).

Will they ever release the often promised FW blog? Or is a blurb in the minutes + alliances pretty much it?

After 3 year id figure theyd have some idea,

Sorry I didn't respond to this sooner but :hi5: on an excellent post.



I've bolded the important bit in your post. YES, we're aware of it. CCP is aware of it. Hell, I spent the better part of my last year at CCP working to have Dominion start to break the mold and open the doors by providing more conflict divers and eliminating much of the grind-y bullshit. Obviously ~management~ deemed the game designers crazy and systematically road-blocked and nuked Dominion down to exactly what it was not intended to be, and there it has sat for two long years.

The term 'bitter vet' is tossed around a lot, but imagine it from the side of someone that actually worked on it and then saw months of effort wrecked in a matter of weeks due to mis-management, misunderstanding and just plain short-sightedness. This was the same idiocy that gave us invulnerable starbases in Sov 4 and AoE Doomsday Titan weapons.

So, yeah, I'm more than aware of it, m8; it's a cause of near daily frustration that I never waste an oppertunity to preach about to the other CSM members or the playerbase at large. It's a big part of what drove me to run for CSM 6 and is has me running for CSM 7 - Finally, FINALLY CCP is working toward unfucking all of this and I want to make damn sure I'm in a position to help keep them focused.



I'm assuming you are talking about the new Battlecruisers? Of course I'm aware of their impact. PL has an entire new fleet doctrine centered around them. I'm more of an Oracle fan myself tho.

Involving a larger spectrum of actors, and emergent, interactive players in 0.0 is the most important thing in the sandbox,

is it not? (as opposed to more, yet isolated, players - as with Anoms)



Yes. Obviously it's a problem that we have to hit from multiple angles.



Are you asking why the mass budget system isn't being applied to Stargates, Cynosural Fields and Bridges? I'm not sure I understand what would be gained by that.... ?



Yeah, you're off base, m8. The stuff we (CCP) came up with for WH space didn't really have much of a bearing on what the original plans for Dominion were. As for the current direction of where it's all going, I'm curious to see that for myself but I don't really think we're going to see this "testing in lo-sec" apocalypse scenario that so many people seem worried about.