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WHY the majority doesn't vote for CSM

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Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#81 - 2012-01-28 15:25:17 UTC
ArrowToo large candidate lists to scout through.

ArrowThe fact that everytime the minutes get posted the majority is convinced it's smugged up by CCP because we all know the minutes are going through the CCP filter first.

ArrowPeople already give up because they are convinced the block votes from null sec give them no chance anyways.

ArrowPeople don't care enough to spend a few minutes to cast their vote.

Arrow High/low sec candidates are to fractured to stand a chance so why bother to vote


These are some of the arguements. There are many more ofcourse.

I do vote, but I have to say I hope the candidate lists get smaller. The new procedure where people will have to bring a minimal numbers of voters with them before even appearing on the list should be a good step forward.

If you can't carry your message to a certain amount of people prior to the elections then there is no chance anyways you will get enough votes to get in anyways.

More transparancy of CCP would also help. Keep the NDA stuff away. Atleast the stuff that would give ingame advantage in due time. But eventual naming and shaming of caught botters/exploiters I don't see any reason as why to keep that away from the public.
There is a simple thing as the EULA that people have to agree to to be able to play the game in the first place.
Wanna break that agreement by useage of bots or exploits then also be prepared to be named and shamed.
I know for a fact that there are enough CEO's and even some alliance leaders who would like to know if they harbor botters/exploites so as they can remove them from their outfit.

Blockvotes from mull sec alliances aren't easy to overcome. It requires a lot of work, dedication and conviction next to a very good agenda with which you want to run your platform on.
However most people don't want to spend that much energy.
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#82 - 2012-01-28 15:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Shazzam Vokanavom
Taedrin wrote:
Right now, it is "difficult" to vote for the CSM. Someone has to read the forums in order to stay informed, and if they want to vote they have to SEARCH for the voting page, and log in with each of their accounts. There are many things CCP could do to improve this process.


Not only that, people dont know or are dissalusioned with how the CSM process operates.

As according to the CSM constitutional, to get a point of interest for the CSM to discuss you have to:

Place a topic of interest on the CSM forums and get a interest in it OR Have a CSM council representative simply place one.

Prior to the beerfest in iceland, *cough*, I mean meeting with CCP where those ideas will be put forward the CSM council has the power to vito which topics to present.

Then the CSM represent those interests "for you" to CCP.


In CCP's defence it does also say that they wont allow any new idea into the mix they consider detrimental to the collective players of EvE. But then it also says they wont let meta interests persuade their judgement.


I let you decide for yourselves how effective a process the above seems to be and wether in actuality it is representing you as a player effectively.


This is why most players put stock in the general forum and other forums in the hope to communicate directly to CCP. TBH, I'd be suprised really to the apparent knowledge of the existance of the CSM forums for a lot of players.
Honnete Du Decimer
#83 - 2012-01-28 15:49:45 UTC
The majority no vote because they think no chance win against null sec alliance and they not know people.


Defeat before start. Majority not come for forums.

PMS [:p]
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#84 - 2012-01-28 16:04:01 UTC
For clarification:

"When a topic is introduced, a seven-day counter begins. During this time, the topic is open for all individuals to deliberate. Should, after seven full days, 25% of the total participants in the last general election support a topic, the CSM is obligated to allocate time for that issue in their next meeting"

However, assuming its gets past the above, it doesn't mean the CSM council will then vote to even take it in their luggage to Iceland.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#85 - 2012-01-28 16:09:31 UTC
Only reason I vote is similar to the reason why I believe 'God' is a man:

No women would be fuckin' up EVE this badly.

Make your next vote feminine and if there aren't any women to vote for: call your mom and buy her a laptop and a plex.

AK



This space for rent.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#86 - 2012-01-28 16:18:24 UTC
Moved from General Discussion.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Dztrgovac
#87 - 2012-01-31 08:14:16 UTC
Nope OP, mostly its just because people don't have a clue who the candidate is and volume of homework needed to check if that "3rd party highsec carebear candidate" isn't actually jita or transport alt of a -10 "uberleetpvper who feed on tears". (and in 95% of cases they area)
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-01-31 10:31:05 UTC
democracy gives power to the best organized; the majority is not organized.

~hi~
Serene Repose
#89 - 2012-01-31 13:50:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
The Mittani wrote:
democracy gives power to the best organized; the majority is not organized.

Then it's an oligarchy. In a democracy the representative body (CSM in this instance) responsibly takes note of the lack of representation of the majority and takes steps to alleviate the flaw. The representative body is assumed to be for a democracy, rather than for subverting a democracy into an oligarchy.

Then, we have the self-serving people whose dictionaries are in pencil...the folks with well-used erasers.

"Some are more equal than others." -George Orwell-

Leave it to the Goon's leader to have a goon take on things.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Zagam
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-01-31 14:06:03 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
democracy gives power to the best organized; the majority is not organized.

Then it's an oligarchy. In a democracy the representative body (CSM in this instance) responsibly takes note of the lack of representation of the majority and takes steps to alleviate the flaw. The representative body is assumed to be for a democracy, rather than for subverting a democracy into an oligarchy.

Then, we have the self-serving people whose dictionaries are in pencil...the folks with well-used erasers.

"Some are more equal than others." -George Orwell-

Leave it to the Goon's leader to have a goon take on things.


If this is the case, then why is most of the US Congress still in office?
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-01-31 14:37:16 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
democracy gives power to the best organized; the majority is not organized.

Then it's an oligarchy. In a democracy the representative body (CSM in this instance) responsibly takes note of the lack of representation of the majority and takes steps to alleviate the flaw. The representative body is assumed to be for a democracy, rather than for subverting a democracy into an oligarchy.

Then, we have the self-serving people whose dictionaries are in pencil...the folks with well-used erasers.

"Some are more equal than others." -George Orwell-

Leave it to the Goon's leader to have a goon take on things.


the best thing about election season is npc corp alts bleating earnest axioms of enlightenment-era political theory and godwinning themselves shortly thereafter

~hi~
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-01-31 16:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Shazzam Vokanavom
The Mittani wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
democracy gives power to the best organized; the majority is not organized.

Then it's an oligarchy. In a democracy the representative body (CSM in this instance) responsibly takes note of the lack of representation of the majority and takes steps to alleviate the flaw. The representative body is assumed to be for a democracy, rather than for subverting a democracy into an oligarchy.

Then, we have the self-serving people whose dictionaries are in pencil...the folks with well-used erasers.

"Some are more equal than others." -George Orwell-

Leave it to the Goon's leader to have a goon take on things.


the best thing about election season is npc corp alts bleating earnest axioms of enlightenment-era political theory and godwinning themselves shortly thereafter


At least its contributing to the discussion as opposed to simply browbeating.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2012-01-31 16:13:50 UTC
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:

At least its contributing to the discussion as opposed to simply browbeating.

a genuine contribution to this board would be 'ban npc forum alts from csm forums'
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#94 - 2012-02-01 01:01:59 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
democracy gives power to the best organized; the majority is not organized.

Then it's an oligarchy. In a democracy the representative body (CSM in this instance) responsibly takes note of the lack of representation of the majority and takes steps to alleviate the flaw. The representative body is assumed to be for a democracy, rather than for subverting a democracy into an oligarchy.

Then, we have the self-serving people whose dictionaries are in pencil...the folks with well-used erasers.

"Some are more equal than others." -George Orwell-

Leave it to the Goon's leader to have a goon take on things.


Describe a voting system which operates on Democratic principles that does not provide power to the best organized at the expense of less organized groups (often called "third parties").

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#95 - 2012-02-01 13:22:26 UTC
This majority concept is all wrong.

The majority elects the CSM.

They pay attention, they know what they want, and they stand up for it.

There are many many sheep who are either ignorant or apathetic of the CSM that leave themselves unrepresented. But they aren't the majority; they aren't coordinated or organized or interested enough to be a majority.

There's just lots of them.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#96 - 2012-02-02 07:55:07 UTC
Mr Epeen got it 100% right. The reason people dont vote is because they could not give a ****

The majority of players will not even know that an election is taking place. They are just playing the game and enjoying themselves

i know a lot of people in this game across all secs and inside wormholes and im the only one who comes on this forum.


and thats to troll otherwise i would not be here either.
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#97 - 2012-02-02 15:09:50 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
The majority no vote because they think no chance win against null sec alliance and they not know people.


Defeat before start. Majority not come for forums.


The start is when you first log in to play EvE. If you are unable to meet and befriend people as well as those who are able to secure a CSM seat, that's on you. You have not been defeated before you start, you have defeated yourself by being either unfriendly or lazy.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#98 - 2012-02-02 15:22:25 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:

At least its contributing to the discussion as opposed to simply browbeating.

a genuine contribution to this board would be 'ban npc forum alts from csm forums'


Is your alt beating a macro or what?

I think you should just open a topic where you post the same line you post everywhere and be done with it. I am certain a lot of people who aren't alts but just prefer to stay in a NPC corp would be gratefull.
Next to that I am certain a lot of people actually in corporations would be gratefull aswel.

Try to google/translate another responce with something constructive for once because the same lame thing over and over is as interesting as reading one of Mittens posts.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#99 - 2012-02-02 16:09:34 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
democracy gives power to the best organized; the majority is not organized.

Then it's an oligarchy. In a democracy the representative body (CSM in this instance) responsibly takes note of the lack of representation of the majority and takes steps to alleviate the flaw. The representative body is assumed to be for a democracy, rather than for subverting a democracy into an oligarchy.

Then, we have the self-serving people whose dictionaries are in pencil...the folks with well-used erasers.

"Some are more equal than others." -George Orwell-

Leave it to the Goon's leader to have a goon take on things.


the best thing about election season is npc corp alts bleating earnest axioms of enlightenment-era political theory and godwinning themselves shortly thereafter



With everyone tired of npc corp alts, thought it time to use my one man corp bleating. I always think of too hopeful when I think of enlightenment ideas. Does seem the players are too hopeful. Would just like to say I was "too hopeful" going into incarna, maybe we should work on that before going into CSM elections.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#100 - 2012-02-02 16:22:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Pok Nibin
The Mittani wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
democracy gives power to the best organized; the majority is not organized.

Then it's an oligarchy. In a democracy the representative body (CSM in this instance) responsibly takes note of the lack of representation of the majority and takes steps to alleviate the flaw. The representative body is assumed to be for a democracy, rather than for subverting a democracy into an oligarchy.

Then, we have the self-serving people whose dictionaries are in pencil...the folks with well-used erasers.

"Some are more equal than others." -George Orwell-

Leave it to the Goon's leader to have a goon take on things.


the best thing about election season is npc corp alts bleating earnest axioms of enlightenment-era political theory and godwinning themselves shortly thereafter

You know, most people think the best thing about election season is it ending with their win. So, one has to assume your response to Serene's accurate post is designed for effect...and in that light the only effect it has is to demonstrate how woefully lacking you are in knowledge of the subject. But, who cares? I know I don't

What's odd is how you try to subvert anything anyone says into some sort of agonizing cry from under your jack-booted heel, when in fact the regime from whom you steal most of your regalia would likely have gotten some latrine emptying out of you before your final disposal. Enough about real life!

I'm assuming you do have the depth of knowledge that includes the fact the "oligarchy" dates back to Greece - BC. That predates the Age of Enlightenment by quite a few centuries. I guess that's an age which passed you by, so all that's left for you is to ridicule it. Enjoy your life as a big fish in a tiny pond.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.