Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Introduction
Industry is a very big and important part of EVE that a lot of people enjoy this type of game play.
But one of the sub-types of the industrial part that a lot of people are looking down upon is mining.
A lot of people are not happy with mining and its current state. They call it boring, non-generic and in general just useless.
A lot of suggestions have emerged to ‘’improve’’ mining, claiming to make it better, more fun and generic.
But all these suggestions are the same, or very similar. People have suggested that we will be capable of aiming the laser on the asteroid in order to get more/less yield dependant on where you hit the asteroid.
There have also been a lot of suggestions for gas mining ships, new mining barges and even t3 industrial ships with sub-systems. These are not bad suggestions, but the fact is that these suggestions are trying to change the current ‘’Meta’’ in other words, overhauling the current way of mining or simply adding another ship to the current thing that people are unhappy with, instead of contributing with new game play to this field without changing it.
So I have been working on a concept to give a new field to play on as a miner.
This concept is made to make mining more interactive, bring miners to places they rarely go or have never seen.
This concept is Black ops mining!

The concept
Imagine yourself flying around I large fleets with specialized ships that can stealth, mine and move quickly from system to system without being noticed, or escape quick if noticed.
Yep, that’s black ops mining!
There are not a lot of black ops/covert ops ships in this game, and this could be a fun thing to add to the world of mining.
The concept is based around that 0.0 ores are fairly hard to obtain if you are not in a 0.0 alliance, or own a WH.
So these ships are capable of creating jump portals in order to move quick and quietly from belt to belt/system to system in 0.0 and lowsec in order mine.
I aimed this concept towards making mining more generic, fun, interactive and adding new content to the current Meta.

The thought process behind this concept
I have always been in an industrial corporation till we eventually merged with our alliance in order to join a 0.0 alliance. My first account was a industrial account that eventually made it into a hulk, Rorqual and a freighter.
But I realized pretty fast that it is very limited on how much money you can make in high-sec space and the income will eventually cap even if you are being boosted. Fleeting up and doing mining ops with your corporation would increase the initial income, but you would still be stuck at the same isk/hr per fleet member (for that sake less because of haulers and boosters)
Mining in a wormhole was another option, but it is simply an unreliable income because the amount of grav sites could vary, and you might unlucky to have zero grav sites in the system.
So as any other miner, I hungered for nullsec ores so I could earn more money.
But you can’t safely mine the precious nullsec ores safely unless you are in a 0.0 alliance.
So I realized, hey we have black ops battleships! If we could mine with normal battleships then we can mine with these!
So I started working on fits for several black ops/covert ops ships that could warp in to 0.0 belts and mine the ore and move in to the next system quietly or get out fast if enemies should see you.
I eventually ended up with the yield of a mining rokh, stealth and jump bridges to move/relocate fast.
But the fact is that this was very inefficient because mining lasers don’t have a long range and you will run out of minable rocks within range if you want to stay close to the ship that have a jump portal generator.
I never made this concept real because it was VERY skill intensive, and I simply couldn’t get enough people to try it out with me.
So I thought: HEY! Why don’t CCP make new ORE/thukker hybrid ships to do this job? It would give mining a new interesting field of operation that would encourage players to go in to nullsec and run coordinated mining fleets (as the current ones are pretty much ‘’mine this ****, mine that ****; get to the new belt!)

Industrial warfare!
The implementation of such a thing as blackOps mining ships can of course be used with other intentions than originally designed for!
Imagine you and your fleet roaming the enemies systems and harvesting their valuable nullsec ores, slowing down their production of capitals and super capitals!
That’s what I would like to call industrial warfare!
If you refer to the ice-miner ganking the goons did as industrial warfare, then no! just no. That’s what we call tactical warfare as it only slows down their movement. This would prevent them from or at least slow down their

Detailed ship descriptions:
Flagship
Ship class: Capital industrial ship
Hull: slightly modified rorqual hull (yes, a rorqual hull that can enter hi-sec)
Colours: black/dark grey and red
Role:
The role of the flagship is to be the center of the fleet, an essential part that the fleet can’t work without.
The core competency of the ship is using gang links to boost the fleet and keep the fleet moving.
The ship will also act the protector of the fleet, so this ship will have a huge drone bay to support a plethora of drones in order to protect the fleet from rats.
Suggested stats(leaving out CPU/PG) :
7 highs (for 5 gang links, one for jump portal generator and the last for a cloak)
6 meds (for active shield tanking)
4 low
2 rig slots
3% effectiveness of gang links per level
99% reduction in cpu need for gang link modules
50% increased drone control range and damage.
5% to shield resistances per level
Role bonuses:
This ship is capable of deploying 10 drones or 5 fighter drones
This ship is capable of fitting industrial jump portal generator
Warp scramblers do not prevent this ship from using the jump drive

BlackOps miner
Ship class: Exhumer
This ship is just like any other miner, it is supposed to shoot the rocks.
But this ship has subsystems that specialize in specific ores so it will encourage the fleet to go for specific ores instead of mining everything they meet. This ship is supposed to be used with t2 strips and crystals
Hull: A brand new ORE-style hull!
Colour: black and red
Suggested stats:
Highs: 4 highs (3 strip miners and a cloak)
Meds: 6 (for active shield tanking and survey scanner)
Lows: 2
20% increased range on strip miners per level
500% bonus to survey scanner range
2% better yield from strip miners per level

Subsystems:
Strip miner subsystems:

-Ore name- Dissolution enhancer
Increases the yield from -ore name(not mercoxit)- by 2%
Reduces the cycle time of strip miners by 3%
Strip miners can only mine -insert ore-

Mercoxit stabilization array
100% reduced chance of gas clouds forming
5% reduced cycle times for strip miners
Strip miners can only mine Mercoxit

Propulsion subsystems:
Interdiction nullifier:
Ship speed: 50m/sec per level of subsystems
Increases the top speed by 10%
Immune to non-targeted interdiction.

Electronic warfare nullifier
20% sensor strength per level
Immune to stasis webifiers
Speed: 100M/sec per level

Defensive systems:
Shield power circuit
Reduces shield recharge time by 20%
Increases shield resistances by 5% per level of subsystem

Shield pulse generator
Increases the repair amount of shield boosters by 10%
Decreases the activation cost of shield boosters by 5% per level

Ore freighter
Ship class: Freighter
Hull: entirely new or modified Fenrir
Colors: Black and green
This is a giant ship that’s supposed to carry the ore around for the several hours the fleet will be out mining, it got a huge ore bay and the ability to compress ore to prolong the time spent in space.
2 high slots (for cloak and industrial core)
Ore bay: 500.000m3
Ore bay is increased by 5% per level
Shield resistances are increased by 5% per level
Role bonuses: this ship is capable of fitting industrial reconfiguration modules and stopping it whenever it is desired once activated
This ship can only unload its cargo while docked in a station
Only blackops industrial ships can access the ore bay while in space


ScoutOps
Ship class: Cruiser
Hull: new ORE/thukker mix hybrid
Colors: Black and Green
This ship is the second part of moving the fleet around; it is supposed to roam around different systems and belts in order to find belts that contain high amounts of the ore that you wish to mine.
Highs: 5 (1 for industrial cyno, 1 for cloak, 3 turret hardpoints)
Meds: 6
Lows: 3
10% signature radius reduction per level
10% increased damage to cruise missiles per level
Target painters used against the scoutOps are 10% less effective
Role bonus:
This ship can light industrial cynosural field generators in high security space
This ship can fit industrial cynosural field generators.
this ship is immune to non-targeted interdiction

This is my idea to give people a new thing to do with mining; it’s new, refreshing and will be go damned fun!

RESERVED for Q/A

umm lardar mag site mining.

Make it so that you can't target a Mining ship under 10 sec no matter what you use. And cargohold restriction to ORE only.

The problem is probably the large fleet bit, I suspect. While there are corps that this would appeal to, getting a gang of hi-sec miner together to either work their way into space that is a long way from their normal operation, or having assets and jump clones set up is probably going to be an uphill struggle.

Now stealth ninga mining in losec might prove to have wider appeal. Ore compression, and loss/reward are the keys to this. Mining battleships and a sub-cap mothership could be some ideas to play around with. This could lead players into developing some interest in mining null sec.

I personally like the idea of BlackOps mining. But I think your idea is taking it too far and too complicated.

Just take the T2 rorqual. A covert-ops mining baseship, with its main advantage being that it can jump to covert-ops cynos. It can transport the miners' ships. It can transport the miners' clones. It can transport the ores. If you want to be even covert-ier, fit cloaks and you're fine.

All problems solved without reinventing the wheel.

Not sure where you get your info from but there are many large alliances that have significant industrial interest in null sec.

Any alliance that holds more than a couple systems generally has at least one with industrial upgrades. They usually limit it to one not because they could not use more but it can become a PITA to keep the mining index up.

Caps and super caps can not be built in high sec. and although you can jump in the materials many alliances do mine much of what they need to build supers only jumping in the high volume high sec minerals.

I spent over a year in a decent size null sec alliance and not only did we have a system with industrial upgrades we had regular corp and alliance mining ops for both ice and minerals. The dedicated combat pilots that had no industrial skills would run security or do some ratting in the system we were mining in so they were on hand if needed to protect the fleet. When ever mandatory mining ops were called tax would be raised to 90%, so if anyone preferred to do other activities other than mining they would still be suportting the op with 90% of what they made going to the corp/alliance. to maintain a decent presence in null requires a lot of minerals for production and ice to keeps POSes online. To buy everything in Jita and jump it in is just not always cost effective. Far more logistics than having an indy branch of the alliance.

There are plenty of indy players willing to, even eager too, move into null sec, and plenty of alliances willing to bring in and protect those indy players just for the benefit of not having to jump everything they need in from Jita. Even the Goons have some null sec indy support at least for manufacturing.

In game sovereignty statistics paints a pretty clear picture. Player owned space is not improved to the level that would come close to suggesting a need for real industry. Even you admit that it takes a fleet to go mining for ore and production is focused on things that cannot be made in Empire.
Sure, the war machine must turn, and the alliance must produce the capitols but there is no room for the average Joe to make a buck without fleet support.

Fleet support for industry is the problem for most independent minded opportunist.

I seem to remember recently that Goon wanted to control Ice mining in high sec space too. Pretty cool idea, but not fun for the independent type. I could actually live with the idea of paying a fee (ISK and/or Ore) to an alliance for mining rights to sovereign space which includes insurance for losses. That way, the alliance hunt the gankers in their space who violate mining contracts.
Risk and rewards for all...


Beyond that, you'll not find me in low/nul sec without fleet support - that's the problem.

Do not choose the mining or ratting profession in Eve. At present, the mining profession has become a "dead end" due to a Null Sec tactic with cloaked ships.

You cannot successfully mine in Null Sec if you are member of a small or medium alliance. Bitter vets have discovered how to use alts in cloaked ships to basically "grief" all industrial activities in enemy systems. CSM approves of this activity, because they think it leads to more hostilities and conflicts. In fact, the industrialists usually have no idea which enemy is backing the "neutral" cloaked pilot. And, some pilots just enjoy giving this grief. Miners are a primary target. So are the ratters.

At present, cloaked ships can stay cloaked 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. In this way, only one "alt" account can shut down industrial activities in just about any system in null sec. Provided, of course, the hostile kills an industrial pilot once in awhile (or serves as the "warp in" for his buddies once and awhile to kill an industrial pilot).

While there are counters to this tactic of pilots who grief systems cloaked (usually AFK) for days and weeks on a 24/7 basis. The only effective tactic against this grief is to join a HUGE alliance with enough space that the industrial pilot can find a "quiet" system. Since most of your CSM representatives are elected by LARGE alliances, guess who approves this tactic? CSM approves this tactic. CCP approves this tactic. They say that it is to "increase conflict"? No. I think it is intended to keep the small alliances down by denying them the ability to maximize their industrial potential. But, that's just my opinion.

How to counter this problem if you are a miner? Just QUIT GAME. The pilot won't grief an empty system. But, then again... that only benefits the large alliances, doesn't it?

Anticipating the response saying I'm a whiner, and saying you just kill the cloaky dudes ... I ask for proof or STFU. Because, you cannot scan down a cloaked ship. IF the guy is AFK 23/7, this means you can put your team on the scanning job for 24/7 and maybe find him. But, have you ever tried to scan down a cloaked ship 24/7? Oh, so you want to bubble and watch the gates 24/7, too? Get serious. The cloaked ship has bookmarks to avoid such traps and will laugh at your feeble attempts. We could call bullshit, but this is an approved feature of the game, not a bug and not an exploit.

What we really need is a new MMORPG game. Maybe a clone that is "like Eve". A new game, which would emphasize industrial cooperation for your PvP wins. At that point, you might get CCP's attention to this insufferable problem called the 24/7 cloaked AFK grief ship. CSM won't deal with it. CCP won't deal with it.

There's a cloaked ship coming soon - to a system near your hulks and ratting ships. ATTENTION, all Ratters and Miners . . . PREPARE TO QUIT GAME !