These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Can flippers and gankers in High sec problem
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Liam Mirren
#161 - 2012-01-30 14:07:12 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Alex Sinai wrote:


Can noob fly that? No.
Can relatively new player fly that? No if he's not industrial.

Who said I'm against that king of ganks on gates? I am for that!
I am against stupid ganking of new players and in proportion of 3 Lokis vs 1 Navitas.


An iteron V can get 22k ehp and 350 dps tanked


Does newbie know how to fit it or have skills?


Does a newbie have enough stuff in his cargo hold to become victim of a suicide gank, if he's not a full on idiot?

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Klezmer
In Praise Of Shadows
#162 - 2012-01-30 14:12:06 UTC
GET OUT OF SCRUBLORD HIGH SEC AND PROBLEM IS SOLVED. NEXT.
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#163 - 2012-01-30 14:16:02 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

To increase the income from mining, we will need to either make mineral sources much scarcer, or make mining require considerable player skill, or make mining more dangerous. Probably some combination of the 3 will be required. What are your preferences?


None of the above, nor am I neccesarily interested in improving mining income so significantly even if it is needed.

My opinion is "competative", valued, purposefull etc. blah, blah, bit of a difference.

And your suggestions and not the only soultions for that.

The reduction of importance the game currently affords to minerals coming from missioning, ratting and drone goo etc, could be reduced and mining improved to compensate. Thus in theory economy remains stable, miners have a better proportionate share on the influence of mineral assests.

Note I don't mean removal of the other mineral generating proccesses as I recognise how significant they are in the economy, but the shifts towards the mining role, whose priority is the use of these, should afford the effectiveness to the role that it at least can compete more effectively than it currently does.
Liam Mirren
#164 - 2012-01-30 14:19:02 UTC
Minerals from reprocessing mission loot and drone region rats should be considerably lowered (Personally I feel that no meta 0 loot should drop from NPCs), this would surely help. The issue Malcanis brought up is a logical one; worth&income is proportionate to effort and risk, if you want mining to be vastly more profitable you have to make it more difficult to do.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#165 - 2012-01-30 14:26:35 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:

A relatively new player with a few months in EVE with not a bad ship and few totally fresh players all in High sec. A can flipper shows up and starts flying around bumping the newbies (5th or 7th flipper for the day for them).


You'd think that after a couple of run-ins with a can flipper they would try and think of a counter strategy. God forbid there might be some thinking involved, and they might actually have to take some action of their own, rather than sit behind the protection of a noob-friendly mechanic.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#166 - 2012-01-30 14:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Shazzam Vokanavom
Liam Mirren wrote:
Minerals from reprocessing mission loot and drone region rats should be considerably lowered (Personally I feel that no meta 0 loot should drop from NPCs), this would surely help. The issue Malcanis brought up is a logical one; worth&income is proportionate to effort and risk, if you want mining to be vastly more profitable you have to make it more difficult to do.


Why when the view is they are comparatively underpaid?

Maybe becuase I need to replace my hulk losses to keep in line with the destroyers you lost but got some nice drops to help replace it all? I mean if you want miners to be the sacraficial lamb in EvE at least pay them better so there are more opportunities for you to gank them? Feeds the ganking economy surely, lol?

Prove to me that it isn't equally less difficult to gank someone and earn a plex in an afternoon and tell me I shouldnt nerf that and then say minerals can't be re-distributed better.

Wouldn't take much of a shift. Largely unnoticable in the economy other than the miners pocket as the overall mineral wealth is effectively unadjusted if balanced.

If your assuming I'm asking for the Lion's share for mining your wrong, given the current distributions that would be too much of an influence. It would aslo be too much to haul, I'm sure.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#167 - 2012-01-30 14:27:23 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
Like salt makes food more tasty. But put too much of it and you throw the dish out. I would not imagine eve without gankers or flippers. It would be terribly boring for newbies too. But there must be way more balancing to flipping and especially ganking mechanics.

Where is the imbalance?

Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:
I really would love to see the discrepency of assests gained to lost from suicide ganking however in a bigger picture. It would help to have a more clearer picture than just individual scenarios.
How do you mean? Are you talking about drop rates?
Wacktopia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#168 - 2012-01-30 14:35:19 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
So, CCP wants to bring in more players in but on the other side does everything possible to keep them out.

Just a short story: *snip*


Look, this is not WoW, Lord of the Rings, Hello Kitty, Star **** or any of the many other MMO's out that that let you play in a play-pen. It's intended to be hard-going because it will always be hard going. Those that make it through the first few months and experience some pain, suffering or loss are pretty-much good to go.

The thing is; you don't reach some level in EVE where you are suddenly immune to all this stuff. The threat is always there. The bunch of can flippers you describe may get baited by some players with noob alts the very next day and they'll probably sit there thinking "oh gee, this seems unfair that my can-flipping gig had just been busted".

This is madness????
THIS. IS. SPART-EVE!!!!!

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Velicitia
XS Tech
#169 - 2012-01-30 14:43:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:


I can't comment on the can flipping because it never happened to me...



being the victim of a can-flipper got me into my first player corp.Cool

Was chillin' in Luse with a few other people, local had maybe 8 people in it ... one of whom was a can flipper. Flipped my ore, and a few other peoples' as well. One of the "good" PvP pilots set up a gang (yeah, it was a gang back then), so that next time the flipper nabbed someone's can, we could all shoot at him (yes, back then you went flashy to anyone in gang when flipping cans).

The gang lead had everyone fit a point to keep the flipper in one place while the rest of the gang warped in on him. I think we killed him once or twice that night ... after he left system (for good, he never came back after that night), the PvP guy who got us all sorted out invited me into their corp.

After that, I don't think I ever got flipped again... well, except when I was the bait Twisted

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#170 - 2012-01-30 14:53:59 UTC
Solution: people just should stop mining. It's a waste of time and skills.
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#171 - 2012-01-30 15:00:45 UTC
Cathy Drall wrote:
Solution: people just should stop mining. It's a waste of time and skills.


First Tippia returns for a round of trolling boredom, now obvious troll stirs the pot. Please biomass yourself if you can't sensibly contribute.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#172 - 2012-01-30 15:01:27 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
So old that forgot when you was new and flew ships that could not hold more then tiny amounts of ore?


I remember those days well. It was bout a year ago for me.

We mined with retrievers and one guy ran rounds in a bestower. We'd drop ore in a jetcan which he would immediately scoop to his hold, leaving one item in the can to hold it open. Even when we made the switch to hulks, we kept up the bestower hauler for a while until I trained up an orca alt.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2012-01-30 15:03:43 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:

A relatively new player with a few months in EVE with not a bad ship and few totally fresh players all in High sec. A can flipper shows up and starts flying around bumping the newbies (5th or 7th flipper for the day for them). The one with not bad ship comes in so flipper warps out. Newbie picks up ore from the can (stupid move but hey, its a newbie and he have tons of things to learn so he forgets some) and moments later a nice fleet of can flipper with a much better ship and friends arrive. Of course all get owned. And all quit the game because they are sick and tired of can flippers, gankers and other sh*t.

i was tricked and killed first time when i was 1-2 months old n000b. "Hey, help me to test my tank. I will take your can and you can shoot me for free". Those "pro" killed my fail-fit Myrmidon which was like 80% of my total wallet. With returned insurance i was barely able to buy new one. Used stuff from corp hangar to fit it. Because of lack of ISK.

End of a story? I'm here. 2 years passed. Lesson learnt.

You sure Eve needs guys who can't take 1 kick in a butt?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#174 - 2012-01-30 15:05:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Whoever taught you to can mine needs to die.

Seriously after this much greif its causing its no longer a valid way to mine without littering space with a bunch of anchorables.

Can mining is for group miners only.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Liam Mirren
#175 - 2012-01-30 15:11:14 UTC
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:
Maybe becuase I need to replace my hulk losses to keep in line with the destroyers you lost but got some nice drops to help replace it all? I mean if you want miners to be the sacraficial lamb in EvE at least pay them better so there are more opportunities for you to gank them? Feeds the ganking economy surely, lol


Here's the deal, it's not at all difficult to avoid being ganked for the same reason that it's not at all difficult to avoid being can flipped, there's many ways (other than using an orca or secure can) to avoid can flipping and there's tons of ways to dramatically lower the risk of being ganked, to almost 0. It's all about a little bit of thinking, some preparation and a bit of non-afk effort.

Why should we, or the game for that matter, cater for stupid/lazy people who for some reason completely ignore the fact that this is a PVP based MMO and just go about their business without thought or preparation? Real newbies have an excuse to not know stuff, but once they're exposed to it (after the initial "why me" phase) they have the option to put in effort to learn and do something about it. And older players certainly don't have an excuse.

One can only gank or can flip someone who chooses to not have put in effort to protect himself. Why try and cater for those people?

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#176 - 2012-01-30 15:23:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Shazzam Vokanavom
Liam Mirren wrote:
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:
Maybe becuase I need to replace my hulk losses to keep in line with the destroyers you lost but got some nice drops to help replace it all? I mean if you want miners to be the sacraficial lamb in EvE at least pay them better so there are more opportunities for you to gank them? Feeds the ganking economy surely, lol


Here's the deal, it's not at all difficult to avoid being ganked for the same reason that it's not at all difficult to avoid being can flipped, there's many ways (other than using an orca or secure can) to avoid can flipping and there's tons of ways to dramatically lower the risk of being ganked, to almost 0. It's all about a little bit of thinking, some preparation and a bit of non-afk effort.

Why should we, or the game for that matter, cater for stupid/lazy people who for some reason completely ignore the fact that this is a PVP based MMO and just go about their business without thought or preparation? Real newbies have an excuse to not know stuff, but once they're exposed to it (after the initial "why me" phase) they have the option to put in effort to learn and do something about it. And older players certainly don't have an excuse.

One can only gank or can flip someone who chooses to not have put in effort to protect himself. Why try and cater for those people?


Sorry dont agree. Repeated ground, read back if you need to.

By argued reasons above why should we cater for stupid lazy ganker interests?
Liam Mirren
#177 - 2012-01-30 15:25:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Mirren
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:
Sorry dont agree. Repeated ground, read back if you need to.



What, you don't agree with the fact that only lazy idiots get repeatedly ganked? Or that you can do something about it? Perhaps you don't agree that we shouldn't cater for the lowest denominator?

Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:
By argued reasons above why should we cater for stupid lazy ganker interests?


Well, they obviously put in more effort than their targets.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#178 - 2012-01-30 15:26:18 UTC
Try reading the official mining guide. Nowhere does it mention jet can mining. No jetcan means no flippers. Simple.
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#179 - 2012-01-30 15:28:11 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:
Sorry dont agree. Repeated ground, read back if you need to.



What, you don't agree with the fact that only lazy idiots get repeatedly ganked? Or that you can do something about it? Perhaps you don't agree that we shouldn't cater for the lowest denominator?


Mining competitveness effects all miners why do you consider it to be the lowest denominator?

If so stop saying we are worthless underpaid scrubs.

By whats been reported all over the shop, mining seems to be revered as the worst profession, ergo sum it needs an improvement. Can't have it both ways.
Klezmer
In Praise Of Shadows
#180 - 2012-01-30 15:29:32 UTC
Heaven forbid people work to protect their assets by not putting them in a gigantic cannister that can easily be stolen from.