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New Miner looking for advice on Ore refining and sales!

Author
Solstice Renaissance
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-01-30 11:15:46 UTC
Hey guys,

Recently got an Alt toon and started mining off High sec belts, been mining pyroxeres for a couple of days and have accumulated quite a bit of ore so i thought maybe its time i did my first haul of sales.

Currently the questions that been popping in me head recently is whether i should refine the ore or just sell it directly.

I have the current required skills like Refining 5, Refining Efficiency 5 and Pyroxeres Processing 3. I'm currently missing 2 levels from pyroxeres and still have a tax rate of 5%. The station i'm at has a net yield of 99.5% while base yield is 50%.

I have tried comparing prices in the market, and for some reason it looks to me that the ores have a much higher price. Currently i have about 1.55mil pyroxeres ores, and 900k+ veldspar ore to sell/refine.

Any advice?
Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
#2 - 2012-01-30 11:47:48 UTC
Refine them, it is very rare that you get better prices for the ore than the minerals (but it can happen sometimes). That is of course if you have good refining skills which you seem to have.

The 5% tax you have at the station can be lowered if you increase your standing with the NPC corp that owns the station. The tax will be 0% at about 6,7 standing if I remember correctly.
The net yield of 99,5% can't get higher, but your Pyroxeres Processing skill is also added on top of that so besides the tax you pay you should get 100% of the minerals out of your pyroxeres.

The ores may look like they have better prices, but you have to consider what and how much minerals one unit of ore actually delivers when refined. Calculate the price per m³ for each ore and than look at the value of the minerals the ores give you per m³ ore. You should see a difference in favor of the actual mineral value per m³ of ore.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#3 - 2012-01-30 12:08:02 UTC
Above post is good advice. Basically get your standing with a corp to 6.67 and refine at their stations.

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Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#4 - 2012-01-30 18:19:42 UTC
I think there are 2 more common ores that are technically worth more sold whole instead of being refined.

Omber & Kernite if I remember, but only the plain ones, not the +5%, +10% as they're as completion for certain missions (Materials for War I think)

But do the maths, don't forget the station tax, if you're in a corp then they should have someone to refine it for you, if not, you can either trust someone else to do it for you, wait until you get standings, or accept the tax.

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#5 - 2012-01-30 22:13:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Solstice Renaissance wrote:
Hey guys,

Recently got an Alt toon and started mining off High sec belts, been mining pyroxeres for a couple of days and have accumulated quite a bit of ore so i thought maybe its time i did my first haul of sales.

Currently the questions that been popping in me head recently is whether i should refine the ore or just sell it directly.

I have the current required skills like Refining 5, Refining Efficiency 5 and Pyroxeres Processing 3. I'm currently missing 2 levels from pyroxeres and still have a tax rate of 5%. The station i'm at has a net yield of 99.5% while base yield is 50%.

I have tried comparing prices in the market, and for some reason it looks to me that the ores have a much higher price. Currently i have about 1.55mil pyroxeres ores, and 900k+ veldspar ore to sell/refine.

Any advice?



Perfect refine will beat the Ore Sales anyday. End of THAT discussion.


Current most valuable refined ores are, in order: Pyrox Plag Kern Veld Scord Omber

From Grav sites, Hemo/Jasp/Hedberg are practically toe to toe, and not worth much more than Pyrox as their composition of Zydrine is plummeting in value on the market, bringing them WAY down.

Anyone know why Zydrine is plummeting for the past few months ?? Upcoming Alloy to Loot change for drone drops ??

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

VaMei
Meafi Corp
#6 - 2012-01-30 22:33:52 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Perfect refine will beat the Ore Sales anyday. End of THAT discussion.


Yes, no one ever puts up buy orders for ore and has the mineral market fall out from under them, and you'll never run into a situation where the best orders for mineral in your area have been filled.

In short, never do the math for yourself, because this one size fits all answer is the one for YOU!
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#7 - 2012-01-30 22:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
VaMei wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Perfect refine will beat the Ore Sales anyday. End of THAT discussion.


Yes, no one ever puts up buy orders for ore and has the mineral market fall out from under them, and you'll never run into a situation where the best orders for mineral in your area have been filled.

In short, never do the math for yourself, because this one size fits all answer is the one for YOU!



If this made any sense it would be GREAT !What?

Sarcasm and truth intermixed and mis-fired.....I THINK.........

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Solstice Renaissance
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-01-31 04:11:52 UTC
Thanks for the awesome advice everyone. I know what i have to do now! Lol

gonna try out Ice harvesting too.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#9 - 2012-01-31 14:43:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Solstice Renaissance wrote:
Thanks for the awesome advice everyone. I know what i have to do now! Lol

gonna try out Ice harvesting too.



Careful with that. Takes nearly twice as long to fill up an Orca (or anything else) with Ice instead of regular Ores, AND it's not nearly as valuable. Need a 2nd toon to Ice mine as well, but then where's the hauler?......unless you have a third account.

Unless you are fueling your own POS, or doing enough PI on the side also to make Fuel Blocks for sale, I would avoid it.

Having to do it in an Ice Op for a corp once a month is another story of course.

And this is from a toon with the Ice Namesake !

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#10 - 2012-02-02 16:31:15 UTC
People obviously are not doing the maths and working out the weight versus isk etc ratios.

Don't bother with ice unless you are fueling your own POS or are involved in selling POS fuel blocks. Ice mining is very boring as well. And that's coming from a miner. Plus you are far more likely to be suicide ganked while mining ice than mining ore in high sec. Setting aside the Goons recent blue ice interdiction, ice is for suicide gankers as cheese is for rats.

Regarding profit from high sec ores always refine your ore providing you have good skills in refining.

Pyroxeres is the best choice if you have reserves in your vicinity. If not then Veldspar,'the king of ores', will be your next best choice. After that in no particular order it would be Scordite, Plagioclase, & Omber. Kernite is extremely heavy so avoid that unless your geographical position dictates that the minerals contained within Kernite are in short supply. Certainly in terms of Minmatar space Kernite is worth less than Amarrian slave girl. Blink
Velicitia
XS Tech
#11 - 2012-02-02 17:26:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Celgar Thurn wrote:
People obviously are not doing the maths and working out the weight versus isk etc ratios.

Don't bother with ice unless you are fueling your own POS or are involved in selling POS fuel blocks. Ice mining is very boring as well. And that's coming from a miner. Plus you are far more likely to be suicide ganked while mining ice than mining ore in high sec. Setting aside the Goons recent blue ice interdiction, ice is for suicide gankers as cheese is for rats.

Regarding profit from high sec ores always refine your ore providing you have good skills in refining.

Pyroxeres is the best choice if you have reserves in your vicinity. If not then Veldspar,'the king of ores', will be your next best choice. After that in no particular order it would be Scordite, Plagioclase, & Omber. Kernite is extremely heavy so avoid that unless your geographical position dictates that the minerals contained within Kernite are in short supply. Certainly in terms of Minmatar space Kernite is worth less than Amarrian slave girl. Blink



mass doesn't matter (actually, I think they're all about the same per unit). it's the volume that kills you. IIRC, hisec ores vary between 0.1 - 0.61.2 m3 per unit.

Veldspar -- 0.1 m3
Scordite -- 0.15 m3
Pyrox - 0.3
Plag/Pyrox -- 0.35 m3
Omber/Kernite -- 0.6 m3
Kernite -- 1.2 m3

edit -- double checked, and fixed

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#12 - 2012-02-02 17:31:48 UTC
Assuming you are refining for sale, volume only matters if you don't have an alt hauler.

Eve IPH in my sig has a mining tab that handles both situations.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

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VaMei
Meafi Corp
#13 - 2012-02-02 19:18:53 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
Assuming you are refining for sale, volume only matters if you don't have an alt hauler.


Shocked

Ore volume is EVERYTHING to a miner.

Mining laser yields are in m3/min. When you mine high volume ore, you get fewer units per minute spent mining.

isk/unit * Units/Hour = isk/hour. This is commonly simplified to isk/m3 on many websites, but if you're selling your ore/minerals to the market rather than to the web, then prices are listed in isk/unit.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#14 - 2012-02-02 19:40:19 UTC
I disagree. Just because you can mine more m3 per hour doesn't mean you get more isk per hour. How it refines and that value matters.

For example, arkonor is much higher in volume than veldspar, but which makes more isk per hour?

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder

VaMei
Meafi Corp
#15 - 2012-02-02 20:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: VaMei
Zifrian wrote:
I disagree. Just because you can mine more m3 per hour doesn't mean you get more isk per hour. How it refines and that value matters.

For example, arkonor is much higher in volume than veldspar, but which makes more isk per hour?


I think we are trying to say much the same thing, but going about saying it differently. Once you know the isk/unit of an ore, and the M3 of that ore, you can reduce that to isk/M3. Once you know that, regardless of whether you are mining or hauling, a load of something that is 100isk/M3 is worth 100isk/m3 and unit size is irrelevant.

Where I think we differ, is that while having a website to tell me what something is generally worth can be nice as a baseline, I expect local markets to vary from that baseline. For the smaller markets I expect them to vary wildly. As someone who deals in minerals and the secondary mineral markets, I count on that variance for my biggest profits. My favorite miners are the ones that blindly follow the generalized advice of the mining websites, crush their local market by filling all local orders without ever changing direction, and just keep at it. “Block says this is best, so that’s what I mine” may not be in your best interest when you choose to mine 30 jumps and 2 regions from the nearest trade hub and you are selling to the local market.

In the end, those miners need to learn how to value their products based on the market they plan to serve without blindly following someone else’s advice. Then they can choose what’s in their best interest.
Specialist Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-02-03 12:15:03 UTC
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-02-03 13:06:58 UTC
Celgar Thurn wrote:
Pyroxeres is the best choice if you have reserves in your vicinity. If not then Veldspar,'the king of ores', will be your next best choice. After that in no particular order it would be Scordite, Plagioclase, & Omber. Kernite is extremely heavy so avoid that unless your geographical position dictates that the minerals contained within Kernite are in short supply. Certainly in terms of Minmatar space Kernite is worth less than Amarrian slave girl. Blink

I'd agree with Pryo if you have it available .. affter that you need to know your local market.. 95% of the time in high sec Minmatar space Plag is 30% more valuable than Veld, and 70% of the time scordite is more valuable. Omber is generally worthless, even if you build your own stuff as the volumes of isogen required are trivial compare to mex, pyrite, and trit.
After the introduction of the Noctis, anything with a high Nox yield is also valuable.
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#18 - 2012-02-05 11:46:57 UTC
EVE - the home of 'disinformation and subterfuge'. I love it! Blink
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#19 - 2012-02-05 17:28:06 UTC
Approximate prices (ISk/m3) as of this morning.

Veld 129 Scor 114 Pyro 157 Plag 146 Omb 75 Kern 141 Jasp 160 Hemo 170 Hedb 167

But Cerlestes site is probably the easiest to use since it pulls from the market price sites.

http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore

The old stand-by was Grismar's, but you always have to put in your own prices.

http://eve.grismar.net/ore/