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Buffed AF's: MWD or AB?
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Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#1 - 2012-01-29 20:14:55 UTC
Hey all, I've been putting together a lot of fits for the new and improved assault frigs, and I have had trouble deciding on AB or MWD based setups. Obviously it comes down to the particular ship, but I was wondering what your opinions were on which AF's were best used with MWD's vs. AB's. I am most interested in the Vengeance, which I will use to fight other frigate hulls and maybe the odd cruiser, but I am interested in your thoughts on prop mods for the other AF's as well.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-01-29 20:35:12 UTC
id also like to know this. i think it's the same as before: for solo work and taking down larger targets, AB and some sort of active setup is better; for group work and general tackling, MWD setups are more useful
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#3 - 2012-01-29 20:38:56 UTC
Personally, I think AB is better in general unless you're kiting. That said, it depends a lot on what/how you're flying and who you're flying with.
Renarla
#4 - 2012-01-29 20:39:26 UTC
AB. Most good fits don't even have room for a MWD.
Ahrieman
Codex Praedonum
Divine Damnation
#5 - 2012-01-29 21:13:12 UTC
A MWD has a few niche roles in frigate pvp.

If you pvp in null sec, plan to fit a MWD or diaf to the first bubble camp you come across. Secondly, if you want to serve as heavy tackle, a MWD + Scram combo can be total win to catch up to some nasty cruisers (thinking about Vaga's and Cynabals, but also good for catching nano BC's).

Dual prop is till a no brainer to comprehend: MWD to catch prey, AB to control range of subsequent fight. Kiting fits will usually opt for a MWD over an AB, USUALLY. Lastly, the MWD + Scram combo can also be used with great success for catching kiting frigs or just catching up to someone to lay the dps down quickly.

I think that's a pretty comprehensive list of scenarios where a MWD would be useful on an AF. Bear in mind that not all of these tactics/roles can be applied to all AF's.

Solo Rifter since 2009
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#6 - 2012-01-29 21:32:29 UTC
I think it depends what you're trying to do. I'd probably AB any vengeance fit, but there's a few Hawk and Jag fits I put a MWD on.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#7 - 2012-01-29 22:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Berendas
Liang Nuren wrote:
I think it depends what you're trying to do. I'd probably AB any vengeance fit, but there's a few Hawk and Jag fits I put a MWD on.

-Liang



Most Hawk fits I see run AB + dual webs and either an MSE or small booster, its actually about the only AF that I see pretty uniform agreement on what prop mod to use What? guess there is some debate on the Hawk though.

As for the Vengeance, the fit I am leaning towards is a dual rep setup. I am at work and don't have access to EFT, so some of the t2 mods might need to be dropped to best named:

-Dual Rep Vengeance-

[High slots]
Rocket Launcher II
Rocket Launcher II
Rocket Launcher II
Rocket Launcher II
5W Infectious Power System Malfunction

[Med slots]
1mn Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Small Cap Booster II - 200 charges

[Low Slots]
Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II
Small Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

[Rigs]
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

123 dps, 145 w/ heat
224 dps tank, 279 w/ heat
8.4k EHP
782 m/s, 1018 w/ heat
Cap lasts for 1m 5s, but is cap stable with the booster running if you turn off the neut.

This setup can also use a MWD, all you have to do is use a named MWD and drop the neut for a t2 200mm autocannon.


Edit: I am now home from work and have made the necessary changes to the fit I posted.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#8 - 2012-01-30 04:12:15 UTC
It looks good on paper, but a vengeance without a web won't apply full rocket damage to other frigates. Other AB frigates will be able to escape at will. And a web/AB Enyo will kill you every time. No frigate tank can eat 440 DPS. It is more of a paper rock scissors game. The perfect fit will be elusive.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#9 - 2012-01-30 04:26:13 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
No frigate tank can eat 440 DPS


Pretty easy to make both the Hawk and Vengeance do it, actually.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#10 - 2012-01-30 04:40:08 UTC
I like MWD's, but that is with setting them to not repeat activation.
That said AFB's are also awsome for your tank and cap.
Try them both out T2/meta4 fits of AF are cheep enuff to lose. Or do what I do and go on the test server.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#11 - 2012-01-30 04:42:31 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
It looks good on paper, but a vengeance without a web won't apply full rocket damage to other frigates. Other AB frigates will be able to escape at will. And a web/AB Enyo will kill you every time. No frigate tank can eat 440 DPS. It is more of a paper rock scissors game. The perfect fit will be elusive.



Yeah, that's my worry. Dedicating a slot to a cap booster basically ensures that you can never lock down another frigate. The more I think about it, the better the Hawk looks What?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#12 - 2012-01-30 04:58:56 UTC
Berendas wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
It looks good on paper, but a vengeance without a web won't apply full rocket damage to other frigates. Other AB frigates will be able to escape at will. And a web/AB Enyo will kill you every time. No frigate tank can eat 440 DPS. It is more of a paper rock scissors game. The perfect fit will be elusive.



Yeah, that's my worry. Dedicating a slot to a cap booster basically ensures that you can never lock down another frigate. The more I think about it, the better the Hawk looks What?


I must have imagined killing all those frig and AFs with my no-web Harpy.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#13 - 2012-01-30 05:03:25 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Berendas wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
It looks good on paper, but a vengeance without a web won't apply full rocket damage to other frigates. Other AB frigates will be able to escape at will. And a web/AB Enyo will kill you every time. No frigate tank can eat 440 DPS. It is more of a paper rock scissors game. The perfect fit will be elusive.



Yeah, that's my worry. Dedicating a slot to a cap booster basically ensures that you can never lock down another frigate. The more I think about it, the better the Hawk looks What?


I must have imagined killing all those frig and AFs with my no-web Harpy.

-Liang



What sort of Harpy fit do you use?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#14 - 2012-01-30 05:05:10 UTC
Berendas wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Berendas wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
It looks good on paper, but a vengeance without a web won't apply full rocket damage to other frigates. Other AB frigates will be able to escape at will. And a web/AB Enyo will kill you every time. No frigate tank can eat 440 DPS. It is more of a paper rock scissors game. The perfect fit will be elusive.



Yeah, that's my worry. Dedicating a slot to a cap booster basically ensures that you can never lock down another frigate. The more I think about it, the better the Hawk looks What?


I must have imagined killing all those frig and AFs with my no-web Harpy.

-Liang



What sort of Harpy fit do you use?


http://kbarmy.heretic-army.biz/?a=pilot_detail&plt_ext_id=835925604&view=losses

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#15 - 2012-01-30 05:17:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Berendas
Liang Nuren wrote:
http://kbarmy.heretic-army.biz/?a=pilot_detail&plt_ext_id=835925604&view=losses



Interesting, the Harpy fits I was considering were mostly dual MSE. The passive recharge on those is pretty impressive, as is the buffer. I don't know how I feel about giving up dps to get the PG for the tank though.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-01-30 07:39:56 UTC
You don't need a web if you are in a gang where your gangmates have webs.
Otherwise you do, in order to control range against other AB fits.

Have not yet seen a good passive tank fit on an AF that outperforms an active tanking one.
However, it would be cool if a mini-Drake was viable.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#17 - 2012-01-30 10:32:58 UTC
I gotta ask: was that a specific counter fit you put together when browsing my loss mails?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-01-30 10:51:00 UTC
Nah, just was testing out to see if it is possible to create a trollmobile to kill gangs of AFs PvPPPP in general.
Figured it would be worth a laugh if it worked, and if not, it cost as much as an AF fully fit, so worth a try. GF.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#19 - 2012-01-30 11:14:29 UTC
Heh, alright. Its not a bad try, but you should have gone with the second web over long point. GF :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-01-30 11:35:42 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Heh, alright. Its not a bad try, but you should have gone with the second web over long point. GF :)

-Liang


Hehe, I was debating about that. GF.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
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