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X-Box 720 fails before it even gets released

Author
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#1 - 2012-01-29 14:53:07 UTC
I like rumors about the games industry, especially right now.

We have mind-bending technology coming from Intel this year, DDR4, new GPU's from nVidia/ATI and we have the next generation consoles approaching final design. Out of all of the rumors feeding the gaming trough right now, the one that stands head and shoulders above all is about Microsoft.

Now, you may have to read this twice, so be prepared and make sure your seat is in the upright position. Ready? Okay; Microsoft are taking preventative measures for any software their new machines recognize as second-hand.

Assuming you've read that twice...this means apparently, that you cannot buy and use any 2nd hand copies of any games in their new box. This also means you cannot buy a game and give it away to someone else once you've 'clocked it.

This, if it's true, would be suicidal for any games machine - why in the world would anyone buy a games console with this level of limitation to it? As it stands, if you buy a game on Friday and complete over 7 days, you can trade it in by the next Friday. This has become and is the norm for console gaming in the second decade of the 21st century.

Imagine if a CD were like that? Or a Blue-Ray?

Apparently they are also using the Blue-Ray as a selling point. Not sure when Blue-Ray became a selling point for a games console [PS3? 2006?], but it doesn't impress me, sorry. More than that, by 2014 [collectively the year most people believe it will be released] 4K Home cinema will be the affordable next generation platform of choice [see: CES coverage] - not 1920x1080, and if they wish to have something that lasts as long as either the 360, or PS3, then they need to think a bit bigger, like BD-XL

How many games have you bought originals for? Or how many times have you traded-in, or given to friends?

AK

This space for rent.

Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-01-29 15:07:07 UTC
I have not bought any console games sine the PSOne, no sure why anyone still bothers tbh. At least now that MS is apparently trying to make it even worse.
SpaceSquirrels
#3 - 2012-01-29 15:13:30 UTC
I wrote a paper on this. You'd be surprised how many gamers are for this... Their reasoning. "2nd hand game sales take money away from our beloved developers." I say you can't have a second hand market without first having the original sale.

I would go as far to say that you could sue MS over consumer rights. (Assuming this is true.)

It's also odd that no other market is really allow to get away with this. Just think if you bought a used car and the steering wheel stopped working until you paid ford or Toyota again?
Gavin DeVries
JDI Industries
#4 - 2012-01-29 15:35:40 UTC
I find this typical, and a bit funny. The automobile industry has always been fine with used car sales. In fact, dealers get a piece of that pie by taking trade ins, just like the game stores that do this with used games. The publishing industry, the motion picture industry, and the music industry are all fine with reselling or trading merchandise once you've paid for it. But the games industry cannot stand that they don't get any cut of the used games market.

You know what I'd really like to see? Valve allowing an option on Steam for you to "sell back" or trade any game registered to their service. Perhaps they'd give you credit towards your future purchases on the platform, but doing so "unregisters" the game from your Steam account, allowing them to sell it again. We have 3 used copies of Game X for $9.99 each.

PVP is a question with no single right answer, but a lot of wrong ones.

Selinate
#5 - 2012-01-29 17:13:15 UTC
So they're going to instantly ruin their games just like EA does when it only allows a few computers to use their games?

Whatever floats their boat. As long as Sony doesn't do the same thing with the PS4, I don't really care...
Kurfin
Kippers and Jam Developments
#6 - 2012-01-29 17:27:44 UTC
Seems rather short sighted TBH. How many of us got into gaming through second hand games? As a kid you may get a game or two a year from xmas birthdays, but the bulk of what I played was games I bought myself, or went 50/50 with my brother on, second hand. I doubt I'd be a gamer 20 *cough* and a bit *cough* years later if there had been no second hand games market, I would have just wound up watching a lot more TV instead.

Excluding a large section of the sub-18 year old population from gaming, in way that music, TV and film doesn't seems like industrial suicide.

Something Random
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-01-29 17:34:27 UTC
No Gavin, just No.


OK - this is the deal.... as far as i understand it.

The Plan (insert any large software manufacturer)

To make all software cloud based or in the least validated and updated via cloud system.
To Hire Purchase all software, the end user will NEVER own any software, and neither the right to it - twill be a gift my friends.
Music industry desperate to lay placemats on the merry go round and already maneuvering to do so.

The Benefits

Endless income, especially in persistant software ie MMO Games. Think SkyTV.
Bonuses for the rich, extra content and perks etc etc etc
As far as apps go - you misbehave your remote kill switched - yes your OS.

The Only Solution
Stop it now before it begins because once the laws are laid...... we (insert favourite cuss word)


Its been stated by MS and Apple its there preferred futures openly ages ago.

No need for the shiny hats.

"caught on fire a little bit, just a little."

"Delinquents, check, weirdos, check, hippies, check, pillheads, check, freaks, check, potheads, check .....gangs all here!"

I love Science, it gives me a Hadron.

SpaceSquirrels
#8 - 2012-01-29 19:35:13 UTC
^

Technically do don't own any software already. Rather lease it in a sense even if you have a disk. Same goes for your actual console. Which is why it is illegal to mod the hardware or OS under them even if you didn't do it to say hack. Take the Linux thing for PS3... You couldnt log on to PSN if you ran linux on it anyway. So hacking wouldnt get you any leet kills on MW3.

Now hacking/stealing crap aside this is another issue. because if i'm only technically "leasing/renting stuff this means they can take it back when im done to recycle it or!!! If it's broken it should then have a warranty until I give it back. (Much like a car or renting a place to live. Assuming something breaks not due to me being reckless.)

However MS isn't the first to do this... Rather I assume a lot of influence is developer caused.
Skorpynekomimi
#9 - 2012-01-29 20:26:23 UTC
**** it. My CONSOLE is second hand. Most of the games are new because spamazon is awesome at delivering things, but I'm still planning on pigging out with retro-ish games from the guy I bought the console off. Since he has a pile of games and wants weed money, and I have money and want games.
And there's the small stack of preowned games I bought to play co-op with a friend.

Why the hell are microsoft trying to kill off Gamestation?

Economic PVP

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-01-29 21:01:17 UTC
That is interesting. I wanted to run multi monitor system for Forza 2, to do this you need a console for each monitor and the game cd for each console. So. Where did I go for the extra consoles and game cds? Pawn shops. Local pawn shops usually have a couple xbox 360 and copies of Forza 2 for sale.

If M$ does this whole thing where second hand cds would be unusable, that would kill the setups like I mentioned above. Most people do not run setups like that since they are casual gamers, so I guess it would not be a big deal. A few rich ones will run them since they would buy new cd for each console for each monitor.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#11 - 2012-01-29 21:52:04 UTC
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
^

Technically do don't own any software already. Rather lease it in a sense even if you have a disk. Same goes for your actual console. Which is why it is illegal to mod the hardware or OS under them even if you didn't do it to say hack. Take the Linux thing for PS3... You couldnt log on to PSN if you ran linux on it anyway. So hacking wouldnt get you any leet kills on MW3.

Now hacking/stealing crap aside this is another issue. because if i'm only technically "leasing/renting stuff this means they can take it back when im done to recycle it or!!! If it's broken it should then have a warranty until I give it back. (Much like a car or renting a place to live. Assuming something breaks not due to me being reckless.)

However MS isn't the first to do this... Rather I assume a lot of influence is developer caused.



It is not illegal to mod a console, it is not illegal to use the console to go online once modded. It is legalfor the company however to deny you warranty if you modify it since you could be responsible for the damage,they are also in their legal right to take steps toprevent you fromgoing online with a modded console since it breaks TOS/EULA etc. But nothing IS illegal, exceptperhaps if you use a copy of a gamewhich is considered illegal if it is not covered by fair use etc.

MS have 2 reasons to wanting this to be done, a, make it harder for pirates to play games without paying and hacking online. B, cut out the middleman, but regarding option 2 we can only speculate.

Fact is, MS would never do this move alone, if they do without Nintendo and Sony going same route they will lose more than what isgained, thus if there is any truth to this rumor that means everyone is going to do the same thing. At least Sony.

Most rumors however is bullshit, the same rumor was made about Sony PS3 before its launch by it turns out MS fanboys.

If they would go this route, CD keys?! it would not stop pirating at all, only second hand sale, gamestop and others would most likely refuse to stock and sell these consoles to make matter worse so... Only way they could pull this of, is if they make a steam like digital distribution platform system instead of disc based. So why then have a bluray? But that would hurt a lot of sales since most people, especially console owners do not use internet or have slow connection speeds/cap on internet usage.

There is so many things wrong about this rumor, and again, it is just a rumor so try ignore it and wait for real information. If they do pull this stunt with the rest of the industry you just have to be willing to give up on gaming on consoles.
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-01-29 22:05:47 UTC
Moot point. Casual gamers run the show now for consoles now, and none of them will care. I have no data but I speculate that the demographic that would actually feel slighted by this enough to skip a console is so small that they will never notice the drop in sales.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch

SpaceSquirrels
#13 - 2012-01-29 22:59:45 UTC
2bhammered wrote:
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
^

Technically do don't own any software already. Rather lease it in a sense even if you have a disk. Same goes for your actual console. Which is why it is illegal to mod the hardware or OS under them even if you didn't do it to say hack. Take the Linux thing for PS3... You couldnt log on to PSN if you ran linux on it anyway. So hacking wouldnt get you any leet kills on MW3.

Now hacking/stealing crap aside this is another issue. because if i'm only technically "leasing/renting stuff this means they can take it back when im done to recycle it or!!! If it's broken it should then have a warranty until I give it back. (Much like a car or renting a place to live. Assuming something breaks not due to me being reckless.)

However MS isn't the first to do this... Rather I assume a lot of influence is developer caused.



It is not illegal to mod a console, it is not illegal to use the console to go online once modded. It is legalfor the company however to deny you warranty if you modify it since you could be responsible for the damage,they are also in their legal right to take steps toprevent you fromgoing online with a modded console since it breaks TOS/EULA etc. But nothing IS illegal, exceptperhaps if you use a copy of a gamewhich is considered illegal if it is not covered by fair use etc.

MS have 2 reasons to wanting this to be done, a, make it harder for pirates to play games without paying and hacking online. B, cut out the middleman, but regarding option 2 we can only speculate.

Fact is, MS would never do this move alone, if they do without Nintendo and Sony going same route they will lose more than what isgained, thus if there is any truth to this rumor that means everyone is going to do the same thing. At least Sony.

Most rumors however is bullshit, the same rumor was made about Sony PS3 before its launch by it turns out MS fanboys.

If they would go this route, CD keys?! it would not stop pirating at all, only second hand sale, gamestop and others would most likely refuse to stock and sell these consoles to make matter worse so... Only way they could pull this of, is if they make a steam like digital distribution platform system instead of disc based. So why then have a bluray? But that would hurt a lot of sales since most people, especially console owners do not use internet or have slow connection speeds/cap on internet usage.

There is so many things wrong about this rumor, and again, it is just a rumor so try ignore it and wait for real information. If they do pull this stunt with the rest of the industry you just have to be willing to give up on gaming on consoles.



If you bypass any "DRM" while modding your console it's illegal. Now most of the mods are for playing "copied games" Which also bypasses DRM, however not all do. But none the less still illegal to do so. (Yes yes if you're doing something to pirate you deserve etc etc.)

"Bypassing DRM security is a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998, which states, "no person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title." And you get 10 years for this.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#14 - 2012-01-29 23:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
^

Technically do don't own any software already. Rather lease it in a sense even if you have a disk. Same goes for your actual console. Which is why it is illegal to mod the hardware or OS under them even if you didn't do it to say hack. Take the Linux thing for PS3... You couldnt log on to PSN if you ran linux on it anyway. So hacking wouldnt get you any leet kills on MW3.

Now hacking/stealing crap aside this is another issue. because if i'm only technically "leasing/renting stuff this means they can take it back when im done to recycle it or!!! If it's broken it should then have a warranty until I give it back. (Much like a car or renting a place to live. Assuming something breaks not due to me being reckless.)

However MS isn't the first to do this... Rather I assume a lot of influence is developer caused.



It is not illegal to mod a console, it is not illegal to use the console to go online once modded. It is legalfor the company however to deny you warranty if you modify it since you could be responsible for the damage,they are also in their legal right to take steps toprevent you fromgoing online with a modded console since it breaks TOS/EULA etc. But nothing IS illegal, exceptperhaps if you use a copy of a gamewhich is considered illegal if it is not covered by fair use etc.

MS have 2 reasons to wanting this to be done, a, make it harder for pirates to play games without paying and hacking online. B, cut out the middleman, but regarding option 2 we can only speculate.

Fact is, MS would never do this move alone, if they do without Nintendo and Sony going same route they will lose more than what isgained, thus if there is any truth to this rumor that means everyone is going to do the same thing. At least Sony.

Most rumors however is bullshit, the same rumor was made about Sony PS3 before its launch by it turns out MS fanboys.

If they would go this route, CD keys?! it would not stop pirating at all, only second hand sale, gamestop and others would most likely refuse to stock and sell these consoles to make matter worse so... Only way they could pull this of, is if they make a steam like digital distribution platform system instead of disc based. So why then have a bluray? But that would hurt a lot of sales since most people, especially console owners do not use internet or have slow connection speeds/cap on internet usage.

There is so many things wrong about this rumor, and again, it is just a rumor so try ignore it and wait for real information. If they do pull this stunt with the rest of the industry you just have to be willing to give up on gaming on consoles.



If you bypass any "DRM" while modding your console it's illegal. Now most of the mods are for playing "copied games" Which also bypasses DRM, however not all do. But none the less still illegal to do so. (Yes yes if you're doing something to pirate you deserve etc etc.)

"Bypassing DRM security is a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998, which states, "no person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title." And you get 10 years for this.



It is not illegal in Europe where I am from, I know a little bit of that act and I am not sure you are correct on that one, the digital millenium act allows people to mod, hack, crack, break and change iPhones etc legally even using another network provider on iPhone is provided, atnt. Also there is NO way in hell that if it is illegal that it could lead to 10 years in prision, only link I find to that is the crippen casein california-

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/12/crippen-dismissed/

Which was dismissed and only reason it went to trial and was a felony was because of the use of "pirated" video games, and since it was questionable if he indeed used an illegalcopy/pirated/stolen video game the case was dismissed even before the trial ended. They argued the whole case was based on him making profit from breaking DRM, which as far as I can see is only illegal if said service provides stolen games, breaking DRM in itselffor fair use is legal.

I know where I live and within the EU it is 100% legal, even to run a business providing modded consoles services. In the states I am unable to find 1 conviction at all.

Where do you get this notion that this is illegal? I am asking in all seriousness with utmost sincerity.


PS: Infact, the Crippen case is the only case I can find where someone was brought to trial, yes in digital millenium act he was charged for 2 crimes each of which carries a maximum 5 years of prison, but I do not find any evidence that those laws would ever holdup in a court of law.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-01-30 00:16:00 UTC
There are other ways this could backfire to, how many people buy a brand new game at release because they know they can sell it or trade it in? If a student or somebody with financial commitments like a family want to buy a brand new game it can be expensive, I would guess a lot only spend the £40 or so in the first place because they know they can either get some of the cash back or save a bit of money on the next game.

Stopping used game trading will cause sales of the new games to drop, with all the financial and economic issues people might not be able to justify spending £40+ on a game if they can get nothing back when they finish it.

Another problem would be the high street retailers themselves, how much of their income comes from used game trading? If bricks and mortar game retailers lose that income they might be unable to stay in business. Causing the closure of the companies that actually get your product to the customer would be incredibly short sighted.
Obsidian Dagger
Nitrus Nine
#16 - 2012-01-30 00:36:46 UTC
I used to work for one of the UK's largest game retailers. Left last summer to focus on college work, but there were hints of this even then.

Many publishers (started with EA but others are doing now too), games with online content came with single use codes. Fifa 11 was one of them.

The singleplayer worked fine secondhand, but you needed to buy a whole new CD-key to play the game online if it was pre-owned.

This is likely to be the method that will be adopted across the board. This is no rumor or pie-in-the-sky plan - it's already happening and has been for over a year now in small numbers.

The upshot will be a total death of the pre-owned games market.

And if you kill off the pre-owned market, you wipe out somewhere around 70% of the high-street retailers profitability. While new releases and mint sales DO make up a large chunk of sales, there may only be a handful of decent big name releases a year, with interest in mint games spiking around xmas and certain holidays. But without pre-owned, we will lose virtually all high-street game stores.
Some are starting to adapt already. The one I worked for is investing heavily in online transactions - Buy your Facebook game cards, M$ and PSN points etc over the counter instead of trusting your credit card details to Sony again.

As long as consoles are sold, and physical media, there will be room for mint sales, but no more high street retailers duking it out to earn your loyalty by offering tasty trade in rewards, or 4 for £20 deals etc - maybe one small shop per large town or city with the usual suspects from Sony, M$ and Nintendo on offer, and mint games for 100% markup because you wont be able to wait for the week after release for the pre-owned version anymore!
Iskawa Zebrut
Smoke to Train - Train to Smoke
#17 - 2012-01-30 01:15:19 UTC
No need to lose your hats over this. Give it a month after the console comes out, you'll be able to get it chipped/BIOS modded to remove the restriction. It should be amusing to see piracy rates explode, along with the second hand market staying alive and well.
stoicfaux
#18 - 2012-01-30 02:37:34 UTC
On the positive side, since games are moving to online distribution only, you may see console games having Steam like sales and specials, especially on older games.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-01-30 02:40:04 UTC
Sidus Isaacs wrote:
I have not bought any console games sine the PSOne, no sure why anyone still bothers tbh. At least now that MS is apparently trying to make it even worse.


your in the minority then, gamers play on console and its not changing any time soon.


I don't think that the no used game rumor will turn out to be true.
but if it does people will simply avoid the console and go with PS4 or the HD wii.
the use of online codes will continue because of used game sales.

these codes are hated by many but it's inevitable when people buy used for a few bucks cheaper then new ( never understood why people did this)
SpaceSquirrels
#20 - 2012-01-30 03:43:06 UTC
Quote:
It is not illegal in Europe where I am from, I know a little bit of that act and I am not sure you are correct on that one, the digital millenium act allows people to mod, hack, crack, break and change iPhones etc legally even using another network provider on iPhone is provided, atnt. Also there is NO way in hell that if it is illegal that it could lead to 10 years in prision, only link I find to that is the crippen casein california-

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/12/crippen-dismissed/

Which was dismissed and only reason it went to trial and was a felony was because of the use of "pirated" video games, and since it was questionable if he indeed used an illegalcopy/pirated/stolen video game the case was dismissed even before the trial ended. They argued the whole case was based on him making profit from breaking DRM, which as far as I can see is only illegal if said service provides stolen games, breaking DRM in itselffor fair use is legal.

I know where I live and within the EU it is 100% legal, even to run a business providing modded consoles services. In the states I am unable to find 1 conviction at all.

Where do you get this notion that this is illegal? I am asking in all seriousness with utmost sincerity.


PS: Infact, the Crippen case is the only case I can find where someone was brought to trial, yes in digital millenium act he was charged for 2 crimes each of which carries a maximum 5 years of prison, but I do not find any evidence that those laws would ever holdup in a court of law.


In the US you are allowed to break a phone because of the FCC. And communications are under a different rule book. And while homie didn't get 10 years that's the potential penalty under the law... Which is kinda ridiculous. And yes in U.S under federal law breaking or bypassing DRM be it software or hardware is illegal. (An exception might be to "white hat" something.) However most of these things go to civil litigation rather than the man truly coming down on you.
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