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I'm Not Content with the Same old Politics as Usual
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Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-01-27 18:01:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyris Nairn
PLEASE SHOW YOUR SUPPORT FOR MY CAMPAIGN BY CLICKING 'LIKE' ▬►


Hello space friends

I have a question for both the CSM7 candidates and the potential voters in the CSM7 elections. It is a very simple question that has been plaguing me for some time, because it is as evident in real life as it is in EVE Online. That question is: Why do we perpetuate a cycle of choosing candidates based on promises they make? Given that both in game and in real life any politician is limited severely by what he or she can reasonably accomplish in office, being that most politicians are members of decision making or decision influencing groups rather than solo decision makers, why is this what people do? You see it in both the CSM election behavior and in the behavior of people in real life. We pick among the promises that politicians make to us, and then we complain about the politicians we perceive did not give us what we want. Why?

I suppose all of this is rhetorical, because my primary point here is to suggest that an alternative exists and to me this alternative seems to be the most forthright and honest way for a politician to represent a constituency. That alternative is to simply ask the People what it is they want, with the only campaign promise being to represent the expressed interests of that constituency. Call me a starry-eyed dreamer, but isn't that what the plain language of most legislative bodies in real life claim that they are supposed to do? Represent the interests of the people. Not the interests of lobbyists, not the interests of power blocs, not the interests of a political or religious ideal. The interests of the people.

I'd like to challenge candidates in CSM7 to abandon the courtship of power blocs, ideology, and all other concerns. Ask the People what they want; embrace those desires as your own; passionately advocate on their behalf to CCP.

I'd like to challenge the voters in CSM7 to hold the candidates accountable to this standard; to not allow them to simply slough off comments and questions about their motivations, their personal interests, and so on; to demand that the candidates either represent the People or to simply laugh that candidate off the stage. You are the 99%. You control the flow of discussion and you hold the voting power. Make it happen.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2012-01-27 19:19:13 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Mittani for CSM7 Chair

FYP Lol

In all seriousness though, I think that the CSM members who were voted in *did* work for their constituency (whoever that happened to be). The trouble is, you don't have 100% participation in the voting which then causes all the "CCP doesn't care about the little guys!" whines.

The overriding factor in this is that it's a one or two round event, where you have loads of candidates all vying for 9 spots (or whatever). What ends up happening is you get people like Mittani who are part of large (often, nullsec) groups ... so they get a guaranteed 500 or 700 or however many votes (because, well, their alliance would vote for them). On the other hand, hisec has few (if any) large, organised groups where a single candidate can "count on" a few hundred votes from their alliance.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-01-27 19:25:35 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Mittani for CSM7 Chair

FYP Lol

The Mittani will win the CSM7 chair position by virtue of the Goonswarm & Clusterfuck Coalition voting block, regardless of whether or not anyone reading the official EVE Online forums votes for him. Just sayin'.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#4 - 2012-01-27 19:41:59 UTC
So the CSM 6 was without a doubt very effective at getting CCP to align to the interested represented by the CSM 6. I have to respect how well they did their job.

I am hoping however, since a lot of folks in Eve were ignored by the CSM 6 that finally more of Eve will wake up and see it is in their best interests to try and support a candidate with a focus that could benefit them.

I know it looks like the power blocks will dominate CSM 7. It is a lot easier for them to amass large amounts of votes, but the reality is that the big power blocks are a small portion of the Eve population. I hope this is the election where players that ignored the CSM and got ignored by CSM 6 right back take some time, find a candidate that will represent them and vote. If that happens CSM 7 will be very different than CSM 6.

Issler Dainze
Voice of Reason Party CSM 7 Candidate
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-01-27 19:45:09 UTC
Velicitia wrote:


The overriding factor in this is that it's a one or two round event, where you have loads of candidates all vying for 9 spots (or whatever). What ends up happening is you get people like Mittani who are part of large (often, nullsec) groups ... so they get a guaranteed 500 or 700 or however many votes (because, well, their alliance would vote for them). On the other hand, hisec has few (if any) large, organised groups where a single candidate can "count on" a few hundred votes from their alliance.

This is true. One of the things I've posted about elsewhere is the fact that the nullsec blocs are very organized and thereby command a disproportionately large amount of voting power for the candidates they support. I do not enjoy the benefit of that voting power because I am not an endorsed candidate by Goonswarm, the Clusterfuck Coalition, or any other voting bloc; so, I know exactly what you're talking about and I know exactly what it means.

Is there perhaps a proposal in this that could be taken to the CSM? Perhaps a change to the voting system to more resemble a proportional representation method, or a transferable vote?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Velicitia
XS Tech
#6 - 2012-01-27 20:39:40 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:

The Mittani will win the CSM7 chair position by virtue of the Goonswarm & Clusterfuck Coalition voting block, regardless of whether or not anyone reading the official EVE Online forums votes for him. Just sayin'.


True enough.

Lyris Nairn wrote:

Is there perhaps a proposal in this that could be taken to the CSM? Perhaps a change to the voting system to more resemble a proportional representation method, or a transferable vote?



Think they brought something like that up in the CSM Minutes for the CSM7 election.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Zagam
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-01-27 21:58:02 UTC
Its hard to judge a proportional representation system, due to the nature of EVE.

As for why people whine about not getting what they want, after a politician lies to them... its human nature. Truth doesn't last in politics, because people don't like hearing bad things. They want to hear things that they like. A congressman may get elected by calling it like it is, but once they are in congress for a session, they learn very quickly that if they ever want to get reelected... they have to fudge things a bit here and there.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-01-27 22:01:59 UTC
Zagam wrote:
Its hard to judge a proportional representation system, due to the nature of EVE.

Perhaps, but a transferable vote should be easy to arrange. If there was a transferable vote system, the fact that the non-bloc votes are so fractious would be less damning and there would be greater representation for the common EVE player since he could vote for "This Guy, or if he doesn't make the cut then That Guy". As it is, if you pick the wrong horse to back in the race you just flat-out lose and don't get a chance to try again until next election cycle.


Quote:
As for why people whine about not getting what they want, after a politician lies to them... its human nature. Truth doesn't last in politics, because people don't like hearing bad things. They want to hear things that they like. A congressman may get elected by calling it like it is, but once they are in congress for a session, they learn very quickly that if they ever want to get reelected... they have to fudge things a bit here and there.

True enough.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
None ofthe Above
#9 - 2012-01-28 00:24:27 UTC
Change politics as usual. Vote for me.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#10 - 2012-01-28 01:42:54 UTC
Damn... I think I might have one vote for a Goon this time...


Lyris, you should advertise in game a bit. A bit. Not as much as Anhk did, because that was just annoying. But go around, talk to people. Trade hubs and rookie areas would be good.

Anyway, good luck.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-01-28 06:07:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyris Nairn
Thank you for your post, Corina Jarr. I'll go see if I can hit up EVE University for some advertisement, I'm an alumni.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#12 - 2012-01-28 10:11:57 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Hello space friends

I have a question for both the CSM7 candidates and the potential voters in the CSM7 elections. It is a very simple question that has been plaguing me for some time, because it is as evident in real life as it is in EVE Online. That question is: Why do we perpetuate a cycle of choosing candidates based on promises they make? Given that both in game and in real life any politician is limited severely by what he or she can reasonably accomplish in office, being that most politicians are members of decision making or decision influencing groups rather than solo decision makers, why is this what people do? You see it in both the CSM election behavior and in the behavior of people in real life. We pick among the promises that politicians make to us, and then we complain about the politicians we perceive did not give us what we want. Why?

I suppose all of this is rhetorical, because my primary point here is to suggest that an alternative exists and to me this alternative seems to be the most forthright and honest way for a politician to represent a constituency. That alternative is to simply ask the People what it is they want, with the only campaign promise being to represent the expressed interests of that constituency. Call me a starry-eyed dreamer, but isn't that what the plain language of most legislative bodies in real life claim that they are supposed to do? Represent the interests of the people. Not the interests of lobbyists, not the interests of power blocs, not the interests of a political or religious ideal. The interests of the people.

I'd like to challenge candidates in CSM7 to abandon the courtship of power blocs, ideology, and all other concerns. Ask the People what they want; embrace those desires as your own; passionately advocate on their behalf to CCP.

I'd like to challenge the voters in CSM7 to hold the candidates accountable to this standard; to not allow them to simply slough off comments and questions about their motivations, their personal interests, and so on; to demand that the candidates either represent the People or to simply laugh that candidate off the stage. You are the 99%. You control the flow of discussion and you hold the voting power. Make it happen.


Lyris Nairn wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Mittani for CSM7 Chair

FYP Lol

The Mittani will win the CSM7 chair position by virtue of the Goonswarm & Clusterfuck Coalition voting block, regardless of whether or not anyone reading the official EVE Online forums votes for him. Just sayin'.



Then don't start such ... threads. X

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Rubinia Valeska
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-01-28 10:42:46 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:


I have a question for both the CSM7 candidates and the potential voters in the CSM7 elections. It is a very simple question that has been plaguing me for some time, because it is as evident in real life as it is in EVE Online. That question is: Why do we perpetuate a cycle of choosing candidates based on promises they make? Given that both in game and in real life any politician is limited severely by what he or she can reasonably accomplish in office, being that most politicians are members of decision making or decision influencing groups rather than solo decision makers, why is this what people do? You see it in both the CSM election behavior and in the behavior of people in real life. We pick among the promises that politicians make to us, and then we complain about the politicians we perceive did not give us what we want. Why?


I think your question misses the point of the voting system.
The people who get elected are supposed to represent their people
by having their own opinion with people voting for them if they share
that opinion. That is IMO the only way to make a large number of people
heard as to what they want.

So in order for a voting system to work well you need many different candidates
with many different opinions but then you face the dilemma that people
have to educate themselves about the opinion of these people in order
to choose the right one for them. It's not a perfect system.

As to the promises candidates make in regard to Eve there can be no more
than a promise of opinion. Its not like the CSM has any power to steer CCP
except by voicing their opinion.
Tango Hotel
4th Drake Squadron
#14 - 2012-01-28 11:50:55 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:

I'd like to challenge candidates in CSM7 to abandon the courtship of power blocs, ideology, and all other concerns. Ask the People what they want; embrace those desires as your own; passionately advocate on their behalf to CCP.


Hi Lyris

It's about damn time, and I second your motion.

You'll have my vote should you decide to run for CSM.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-01-28 19:32:29 UTC
Tango Hotel wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:

I'd like to challenge candidates in CSM7 to abandon the courtship of power blocs, ideology, and all other concerns. Ask the People what they want; embrace those desires as your own; passionately advocate on their behalf to CCP.


Hi Lyris

It's about damn time, and I second your motion.

You'll have my vote should you decide to run for CSM.

Hi! Thank you very much. I do intend to run for CSM7.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-01-28 19:43:46 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Hello space friends

I have a question for both the CSM7 candidates and the potential voters in the CSM7 elections. It is a very simple question that has been plaguing me for some time, because it is as evident in real life as it is in EVE Online. That question is: Why do we perpetuate a cycle of choosing candidates based on promises they make? Given that both in game and in real life any politician is limited severely by what he or she can reasonably accomplish in office, being that most politicians are members of decision making or decision influencing groups rather than solo decision makers, why is this what people do? You see it in both the CSM election behavior and in the behavior of people in real life. We pick among the promises that politicians make to us, and then we complain about the politicians we perceive did not give us what we want. Why?

I suppose all of this is rhetorical, because my primary point here is to suggest that an alternative exists and to me this alternative seems to be the most forthright and honest way for a politician to represent a constituency. That alternative is to simply ask the People what it is they want, with the only campaign promise being to represent the expressed interests of that constituency. Call me a starry-eyed dreamer, but isn't that what the plain language of most legislative bodies in real life claim that they are supposed to do? Represent the interests of the people. Not the interests of lobbyists, not the interests of power blocs, not the interests of a political or religious ideal. The interests of the people.

I'd like to challenge candidates in CSM7 to abandon the courtship of power blocs, ideology, and all other concerns. Ask the People what they want; embrace those desires as your own; passionately advocate on their behalf to CCP.

I'd like to challenge the voters in CSM7 to hold the candidates accountable to this standard; to not allow them to simply slough off comments and questions about their motivations, their personal interests, and so on; to demand that the candidates either represent the People or to simply laugh that candidate off the stage. You are the 99%. You control the flow of discussion and you hold the voting power. Make it happen.


Lyris Nairn wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Mittani for CSM7 Chair

FYP Lol

The Mittani will win the CSM7 chair position by virtue of the Goonswarm & Clusterfuck Coalition voting block, regardless of whether or not anyone reading the official EVE Online forums votes for him. Just sayin'.



Then don't start such ... threads. X

I'm sorry if you find the truth to be inconvenient, but that's the state of affairs.

You can comfort yourself with the fact that a vote for me is not a vote for The Mittani!

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lady Starfire
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-01-28 22:42:24 UTC
LYRIS WHAT IS YOUR VIEW ON MAKING IT SO CCP WILL LET ONE ARMS LIKE ME BE DISPLAYED PROPERLY IN STATION AND NOT FORCE A SECOND ARM ONTO ME?
Ka P'lah
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-01-29 01:29:23 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:

The Mittani will win the CSM7 chair position by virtue of the Goonswarm & Clusterfuck Coalition voting block, regardless of whether or not anyone reading the official EVE Online forums votes for him. Just sayin'.



...How democratic. That may very well be the EVE realpolitik, but I wonder how the players of EVE feel about that?
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-01-29 01:30:17 UTC
Ka P'lah wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:

The Mittani will win the CSM7 chair position by virtue of the Goonswarm & Clusterfuck Coalition voting block, regardless of whether or not anyone reading the official EVE Online forums votes for him. Just sayin'.



...How democratic. That may very well be the EVE realpolitik, but I wonder how the players of EVE feel about that?

"Not good," is my guess.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Melina Octurian
101st Space Marine Force
#20 - 2012-01-29 07:06:27 UTC
Lyris, I would challenge your challenge by stating that a happy medium can be found between striving for representation of a bloc, region, etc and representing an ideal.

Although each bloc or organization may have a biased candidate, I think that each candidate must prove their worth by taking a stance on controversial issues. I see this “highsec vs. nullsec” feuding all over the CSM forums, and I sometimes think both parties miss the forest for the trees quite often. The “Voice of Reason”’s rhetoric can be just as polar as Goons’ is.

Lastly, I do not think a popular vote is all bad. Collaboration can be a very powerful thing, especially when it’s not tainted by campaign funding (like in the US!). When an alliance holds sovereignty, they carry influence. This tends to unite people toward a common goal, and why shouldn’t CSM representation be in their best interests? They deserve it just as much as anyone in EVE. Highsec is a somewhat different animal (since large power blocs are not as prevalent there). However, at the end of the day I reckon highsec players will err on the side of the candidate with the strongest ideals.

I am also running for CSM7. I look forward to seeing you and the other candidates on the soap box. ;)
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