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EvE Online: Reality Check

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Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-01-28 12:01:58 UTC
There are so many ways for a newish player to make ISK in this game that it hardly bears bringing up. I mean, there's a free guide called.. "ISK The Guide!"

And any corp that required that I already have 50m SPs and a few billion in ISK is wanting to be an "Elite" corp. There are other corps that welcome newer players, especially if that newbie has real PVP interest.

I think this is an example of Jester seeing everything through bittervet eyes. Like most writers, his material tells us more about him than it does about his subject.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
Factor Fett
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2012-01-28 13:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Cryten Jones wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
in other news people still want instant gratification and dont want to work hard like the bitter vets.

IT'S A GAME ... WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO WORK HARD IN A GAME


Because the challenge IS the game!!.....

Concise +1, Because THE CHALLENGE IS THE GAME!
J Kunjeh
#63 - 2012-01-28 13:14:28 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Quote:

And yet here you still are , complaining and being an ass.And you call others morons because they don't mind a little grind.


Ironic.


No, I call others morons because they seem to think that doing tedious, repetitive and poorly thought out tasks in a game is fun, the only irony here is that people like you run around convincing yourselves that all the time you spend grinding in EVE Online isn't completely worthless and if you spent the amount of time you did playing this game on something else not only would it be more fun but you'd have actually achieved something in life rather than just being forced to do another grinding session yet again as CCP release more content.


You do realize that the entire existence of ALL kinds of video games is predicated on doing the same pointless bullshit that you do in Eve? That no video game has any redeeming qualities and they're all a waste of precious time which cause you to waste your life doing something that won't help advance you or your fellow human beings in any way whatsoever....right? Ok, just wanted to make sure.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#64 - 2012-01-28 13:17:00 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
It's very simple, I have this thing called money, I spent it on subscription
…and that just leads back to the question of “why?”
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#65 - 2012-01-28 14:04:07 UTC
Thread cleaned from off topic and inappropriate posts. Please stay on topic and polite, thank you.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
foxnod
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-01-28 14:37:50 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Quote:
So yet again then why are you even playing this game , why are you wasting that oh so precious time of yours on this forum?


It's very simple, I have this thing called money, I spent it on subscription, I have a legal right to complain if my product sucks so unless you're going to give me the 38.85 I paid because I know CCP won't then you can gtfo, that said I doubt someone like you would understand very much since apparently there are a ton of botters in 0.0 alliances who grind ISK for you so you can easily buy PLEX with ISK without having to pay for anything.

so yeah, I think I'll just stay here annoying you vets who think you're special just because of how long you've played the game.



Then vote with your wallet and don't let the door to your captain's cubicle hit you on the way out.
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-01-28 17:57:29 UTC
I liked how it called PvE a horrible grind. It's only a grind if you don't want to put in the work.
"If."
Vallek Arkonnis
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-01-28 22:17:29 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Quote:

And yet here you still are , complaining and being an ass.And you call others morons because they don't mind a little grind.


Ironic.


No, I call others morons because they seem to think that doing tedious, repetitive and poorly thought out tasks in a game is fun, ... if you spent the amount of time you did playing this game on something else not only would it be more fun but you'd have actually achieved something in life rather than just being forced to do another grinding session yet again as CCP release more content.


Quote:
It's very simple, I have this thing called money, I spent it on subscription, I have a legal right to complain if my product sucks so unless you're going to give me the 38.85 I paid because I know CCP won't then you can gtfo,


So let me get this straight... You call others morons for doing grinding sessions that, according to you, they're forced to do. When someone asks why you still pay for, in your opinion, such a terrible game that forces you to grind, you tell them to gtfo. Who's the moron?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#69 - 2012-01-28 22:33:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Rico Minali wrote:
Or, you could go and join the forces of elite pvp and do all teh above alone and without help. Of course, being as we are part of the CFC though that pilot will have been fed so much propaganda and drivel about how the CFC scam and backstab he wont want to approach us, he will go and join our enemies, providing us with more targets, and when he loses his ships, well he can always go and rat in a drake until he can afford anew one right?

They might believe in the free rifters/thrashers, but definitely not in all the reimbursements. Blackbirds are definitely amazing to use since you can stop people from shooting their big guns at your friends.

Ratting is rather exciting in Dek, though. What with the gankers coming to make me into their next killmail(s).

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
FadeIN Fr0St
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-01-28 23:11:12 UTC
foxnod wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
foxnod wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
in other news people still want instant gratification and dont want to work hard like the bitter vets.


I am a vet and I am bitter, I wish was I noob with a game offering me instant gratification, if only Cry


Yes, let's make eve just like the other 397,268 MMO's that do the instant gratification thingy. Oh wait; that would run off it's core customer base and they'd close the servers in 3 months tops.

I have a better idea. All the whiney children go play one of the thousands of other games that cater to their ADD mentality.



I agree with you, of course. I am just bitter because eve takes it to the extreme sometimes. Playing on a weekend for half a day to hopefully if lucky get into a pvp fight by zerging or getting blobbed gets old, back in 2006 pvp was better. Can't put my finger on why, but eve is a lot more boring today than back in the day. Perhaps it is because I am a bitter old vet, who knows, but even after +years break this game is still old and seem to head to worse places.

Maybe it also makes it worse by the fact that my SP and other peoples SP is too much today. The gapis too great. Same with the ISK gap. All MMO's seem to suffer when they become old, or too old. Same with WoW and others.


I would disagree about the SP issue. I just spent a 10 month stint in highsec. What I saw in there was new players asking about pvp/nullsec/lowsec and being told by the all the washouts that.....

1. You need 50mil SP to compete
2. That you'd be a slave to some RMT overlord
3. That it takes billions of ISK to compete in any form of PVP

The washouts from null/lowsec are the ones who are causing these problems and they should've been run out of EVE years ago.

We've brought in newer players into our alliance and they work fine. The number one thing in EVE is attitude. If you have a rotten attitude then you'll never go anywhere; if you have a good attitude you'll be able to get into 70% of corps alliances in your first year.


That is the first time I have seen someone put there fingure on the word that describes those kind of ppl. "Washout" very very suiting.

"All hail Wang ... the little fella in Command. When 'trouble' starts to spread, I'm sure he will rise to the occasion."

Azahni Vah'nos (Best reply ever)
flakeys
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-01-28 23:49:43 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Thread cleaned from off topic and inappropriate posts. Please stay on topic and polite, thank you.



Because asking someone to be polite on the forums and not use offensive language while not using it yourself IS on fact inappropriate.


uhuh ...

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#72 - 2012-01-29 00:14:11 UTC
Xearal wrote:
Lol OP.

Seriously.. getting money in this game isn't all that hard. And while a new player can be a bit overwhelmed with things, if they join a good corp with people that will teach them the ropes, then things are fine. You do NOT need all of those fancy ships you're talking about.

A newbie in a rifter is a scary prospect if he knows what he's doing, especially if he has 20 veteran friends with him.
A Drake will do level 4s just fine if you really want ot mission.
A cane or drake works fine in incursions until you can afford a shinier ship for it.


Learning how to be self sufficient and make money in Eve is something that every player should learn early on. Finding somethign they like doing and makes money which pays for further advancements and projects they want to undertake.

As for 100M in 100 days.. that's bloody easy. I made my first billion in my first month, 6 months later, I had an income of several hundred million a month. Nowadays it's close to 2B and soon expanding upwards to 3-4B when my next project starts up.



I'd like to know how you did that. I get the feeling your projects don't involve you working a whole hell of a lot.

Related to that, and old Corpmate of mine used to say something along these lines, "Members in Corps are just members." "They need to pay taxes and fund the Corporation;" "You don't pay them for work, and they don't have rights." "How the hell do you expect to make any money?"

He was right in one respect; you can't make money running a corporation like that, but you can make money collecting taxes and buying products off your workers for next to nothing and reselling them. That was how he figured things should work. I disagreed of course, and still do.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#73 - 2012-01-29 00:28:39 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Not really no, mainly because when you have to do these actions, you have to do them for hours, upon hours, upon hours, upon hours in order to make any progress, in fact sometimes you have to even have to wait days or even months before you get to where you want to go in EVE and most people will actually paying money for this game so why should we have to just let our account run out because of crappy game design?


As I posted above: balls.

I did some mining (because in the rookie chat they tell to do so) then I read the forums and learned about being smart.

If you are smart you don't need "hours upon hours upon hours" of anything because you do it right.

So my 50M I grinded in 2 months of mining became 1.2B in 1 month (May 2009) and now I have enough money I don't even need to play to make more. I made billions while being unsubbed from Aug to December, beat that! (bought stuff low before quitting, dumped in December high).


Oh, I was still unable to fit a T1 Rifter (I needed PDU etc) yet I was already in Dark Rising doing PvP. I jumped to 0.0 thru a Titan when I could barely fly a Rupture cruiser. Video about this available on Youtube.

YOU are your limit.


Valei Khurelem wrote:
Quote:
So yet again then why are you even playing this game , why are you wasting that oh so precious time of yours on this forum?


It's very simple, I have this thing called money, I spent it on subscription, I have a legal right to complain if my product sucks so unless you're going to give me the 38.85 I paid because I know CCP won't then you can gtfo, that said I doubt someone like you would understand very much since apparently there are a ton of botters in 0.0 alliances who grind ISK for you so you can easily buy PLEX with ISK without having to pay for anything.

so yeah, I think I'll just stay here annoying you vets who think you're special just because of how long you've played the game.


Flakeys earn more money than you'll ever see in your dreams without any need for bots or anything.
Learn the game.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#74 - 2012-01-29 00:36:55 UTC
foxnod wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem like there's more of an entitlement mentality since CCP got rid of the learning skills?


I think the entitlement mentality started creeping in as more players from other MMOs started playing. When I started reading the forums in 2007 I didn't see this level of entitlement and it wasn't here in 2009 when I finally subbed my trial. It's really become apparent to me over the last year or two as things like Incarna have attracted new players. perhaps not ones that will do well in the game either.

If you expect instant gratification in this game, I have news for you, it's not going to happen. Tough!

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#75 - 2012-01-29 02:06:38 UTC
Weeble Tauri wrote:
This is my first EVE character.

I have never bought a PLEX for ISK, and within 3 months I was funding this, and another character, by buying PLEX in game.

Did I do it wrong?



Top man, hope you're enjoying the game mate.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Connaght Badasaz
Lewis and Clark Inc.
#76 - 2012-01-29 02:22:59 UTC
J Kunjeh wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Quote:

And yet here you still are , complaining and being an ass.And you call others morons because they don't mind a little grind.


Ironic.


No, I call others morons because they seem to think that doing tedious, repetitive and poorly thought out tasks in a game is fun, the only irony here is that people like you run around convincing yourselves that all the time you spend grinding in EVE Online isn't completely worthless and if you spent the amount of time you did playing this game on something else not only would it be more fun but you'd have actually achieved something in life rather than just being forced to do another grinding session yet again as CCP release more content.


You do realize that the entire existence of ALL kinds of video games is predicated on doing the same pointless bullshit that you do in Eve? That no video game has any redeeming qualities and they're all a waste of precious time which cause you to waste your life doing something that won't help advance you or your fellow human beings in any way whatsoever....right? Ok, just wanted to make sure.



I have to agree, all these games have pointless bullshit. When the new and shiny wears off, you are doing the same thing. Some folks enjoy it, some not so much.

Take arrows in the forehead, never the back
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#77 - 2012-01-29 04:35:44 UTC
Let me start off by saying that maybe i feel like this because i am an older player. Its been a long time since i was a noob and had no clue what i was doing in EVE.

When i first started i cant remember anything about how hard i had to grind for ISK. I remember i was pissed at my self when i lost my first BS,but not because it was exspensive. I was pissed because i lost it in such a stupid way that it still embaresses me (never forgot to turn on hardeners after jumping trough a gate after that Blink ).

I do remember enjoying the challange. How nice it felt seeing small amounts of ISK come into my wallet,enjoyed working towards my ISK goal so i could buy that new shiny ship and fittings to support it. And ofc to be on the safe side getting some extra ISK so that IF i should loose it,i could cover it.
Now i dont have that enjoyment over the small things anymore. ISK is easy to come by,and i have all the shiny toys i want so making ISK by doing missions or occasionally mining is just something to do while im bored or to mix things up a bit.

Do i still enjoy EVE? Ofc i do! It drives me so insane that i want to tear all my hair out of my skull,i want to rip corp members heads off when they do something stupid and the political nightmare that seems to be a regular occuranse makes me grind my theets.
But its because of all this EVE is fun. If i dident have all this drama EVE would just be like any other online game out there where nothing you say or do really matters. Games like that are nice if you want something to relax with for a bit,but in the long run you get bored of them because of the lack of challanges.

If you are a new player,and the ISK grind is what frustrates you EVE might not be the best game for you. The ISK grind is such a small part of the game,and there will be so many things down the line that will frustrate you on a much higher level then lack of ISK ever could.


Phoibe Enterprises

The Eve Reader -  Audio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-01-29 04:45:08 UTC
Homer: Hey, how come you never play your guitar anymore?

Bart: I’ll tell you the truth, Dad. I wasn’t good at it right away, so I quit. I hope you’re not mad.

Homer: Son, come here. Of course I’m not mad. If something’s hard to do, then it’s not worth doing.
Revii Lagoon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2012-01-29 04:50:29 UTC
My first month in EVE: I joined a corp, went into a wormhole with that corp, did what I could to help people out, gained a bit of their trust, and then stole 1 billion isk worth of loot and took it to high sec for selling. On my way to jita I got suicide ganked and lost all that isk that I had worked for in a month, so what did I do? I found that overall experience very fun, I didn't care about the money, the fact that I could do something like that with little knowledge of the game and using my own intuition was what made that fun for me.

Knowledge of the game trumps any amount of isk you can generate when starting out in EVE. Knowledge is power, and with power comes money.
Selinate
#80 - 2012-01-29 04:53:30 UTC
Eve is an MMO. This happens with all MMO's. Things start getting top-heavy, with the MMO having mostly players who have higher skills/levels/w/e and a lot more in-game money than any of the new players. Eve just has a different system so it expresses itself in a different way.

In the end for Eve, though, i think the biggest problem with this is still SP. In Eve's specific case, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to incrementally step up the amount of SP a player starts out with over time, in order to bridge the widening gap between old players and brand spankin' new players.

But hey, CCP has been driving their game to the point where it's anti-new player for years now, and only a few new players really end up getting into the game. Who am I to care what they decide to do next.